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There Was No Way a P-51 Could Replace the A-10
War is Boring ^ | 12/16/2014 | oseph Trevithick

Posted on 12/17/2014 7:19:08 AM PST by ImJustAnotherOkie

The U.S. Air Force has a complicated relationship with its low- and slow-flying A-10 Warthog attack jet. And that’s putting it mildly. The flying branch has tried more than once to retire the ungainly A-10 in favor of speedier planes, only for lawmakers to block the move.

But on at least one occasion, the Air Force actually defended the heavily-armored, gun-armed Warthog from an unlikely challenger—a modern version of the World War II P-51 Mustang that Congress for some reason really loved.

In 1979, Congress demanded the Air Force test out the tiny Piper PA-48 Enforcer light attack plane—a derivative of the then-39-year-old P-51—as cheaper alternative to the A-10, which was brand new at the time. Five years later, the air service put two Enforcers through their paces.

(Excerpt) Read more at medium.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: a10; josephtrevithick; warisboring; warthog
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To: GBA

Holy Moly!!! $125 for hardback?


81 posted on 12/17/2014 10:38:15 AM PST by ImJustAnotherOkie
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To: the OlLine Rebel

Sorry, misread you’re post.

Original P-51 (and A-36) engines were Allisons. Then RR Merlins, which were license produced by Packard.

The original RRs were certainly gone by Korea, with the planes powered by the Packard versions.


82 posted on 12/17/2014 10:38:40 AM PST by tanknetter
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To: azcap

According to Walt Williams it would be closer to $1.4 Million.


83 posted on 12/17/2014 10:40:43 AM PST by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue./Federal-run medical care is as good as state-run DMVs.)
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To: tanknetter

Sheesh, trying to get this right here.

The Alisons were definitely gone, never powered the P-51D to begin with.

The limited number of RR Merlins that were bought (not sure if any of these powered production P-51s) were certainly gone too, leaving the Packards.


84 posted on 12/17/2014 10:41:38 AM PST by tanknetter
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To: tanknetter

Oh geeesh, I messed up. Sorry. I forgot originals were Allison.


85 posted on 12/17/2014 10:41:40 AM PST by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue./Federal-run medical care is as good as state-run DMVs.)
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To: Dan Cooper

NO!! Give me operations,
Way out on some lonely atoll.
For I am too young to die
I just want to go home.


86 posted on 12/17/2014 10:42:06 AM PST by NorthMountain
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To: azcap
The P-47 cost $85K in 1945. That’s about $550k today. So for the cost of 1 F-22 you could have 800 P-47’s .

I am coming up with 1.1 million in today's USD. So it would be 400 not 800. :) A huge number regardless.

87 posted on 12/17/2014 10:43:35 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: Sequoyah101

I didn’t notice the dive brake was extended! I wonder what the power off stall speed is with that thing hanging down?


88 posted on 12/17/2014 10:45:44 AM PST by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: ImJustAnotherOkie
Yep, that's a lot for a book, alright. Fairly close to college text book prices.

I read the paperback version the library at school had for free way back then and am surprised it costs that much.

But, it's not as much as Sled Driver : Flying the World's Fastest Jet, a book I'd very much like to have.

89 posted on 12/17/2014 11:50:23 AM PST by GBA (America needs political rehab. Our political parties are addicted to O.P.M.)
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To: ImJustAnotherOkie

Wouldn’t want to use a Stuka, but an updated IL-2 or IL-10 might work.
But this one is ready for purchase and relatively cheap. You can put a lot of them in the air.


90 posted on 12/17/2014 1:36:31 PM PST by Little Ray (How did I end up in this hand-basket, and why is it getting so hot?)
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To: ImJustAnotherOkie

I have give this a little thought. The A-10 can be replaced.

With the proliferation of precision guided munitions, I think the A-10 could be replaced by a aircraft with a bomblet dispenser. Its primary weapon would be 25-50 lb. guided bomblets, and it would carry dozens, if not hundreds of them. The bomblets would need some standoff (glide) capability, and would be available in multiple types, including armor piercing, HE, smoke, gas, etc. It should have a crew of two (pilot and weapons officer), able to interface with ground pounders, and able to rapidly engage large numbers of targets simultaneously.


91 posted on 12/17/2014 1:45:36 PM PST by Little Ray (How did I end up in this hand-basket, and why is it getting so hot?)
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To: Little Ray

Occasionally substituted, eyes on target is still and probably always will be important. Bomblets however don’t all go off and leave nasty little surprises for the people who follow. Could even be our guys.


92 posted on 12/17/2014 1:52:14 PM PST by ImJustAnotherOkie
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To: tanknetter

I don’t disagree, although I’d want to move the engine up like on a P-38 to increase ground clearance for more use on marginal runways.

I could really see a really, really simple plane like this being very useful as cheap ground support, like less than $1million a plane.


93 posted on 12/17/2014 1:54:59 PM PST by TheThirdRuffian (RINOS like Romney, McCain, Christie are sure losers. No more!)
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To: The Great RJ

I have a pic like that with the P51. It is awesome.


94 posted on 12/17/2014 2:02:08 PM PST by US_MilitaryRules (The last suit you wear has no pockets!)
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To: TheThirdRuffian

Keep in mind that the recovery and restoration to flight of the P-38 Glacier Girl cost about $10 million, at the time. And the guy who led the restoration (Bob Cardin) said that every part on the aircraft was broken and had to be fixed or replaced.


95 posted on 12/17/2014 3:47:07 PM PST by tanknetter
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To: tanknetter

Not sure how that is relevant


96 posted on 12/17/2014 7:42:20 PM PST by TheThirdRuffian (RINOS like Romney, McCain, Christie are sure losers. No more!)
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To: central_va
What's wrong with the A-1?

Not a thing wrong with it. It can even be configured for special ordnance.


97 posted on 12/17/2014 7:42:41 PM PST by Professional Engineer (You all can go to hell, I'm going to Texas.)
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To: TheThirdRuffian

Basically Glacier Girl is a new build aircraft that used some existing components.

There’s no way that you could get the price of a comparable military aircraft down to $1 million. I’d think the $10 million for GG is the floor, cost-wise. Once you start adding in required MilSpec hardware (comms, jamming, targeting, bang seat) and adopt a contemporary powerplant (not going to put Allisons or Merlins back into production) the price is really going to spike. To the point where it would just make sense to keep the A-10s with all their wonderful sunk costs (esp for the ones that were just rewinged) around for another 30 years.


98 posted on 12/18/2014 6:15:44 AM PST by tanknetter
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To: tanknetter

Maybe, but there is actually a program for a Low Cost Battlefield Attack Aircraft (LCBAA) with the target price of no more than $1,000,0000.

The goal is to make thousands and strip out most everything.


99 posted on 12/18/2014 7:07:04 AM PST by TheThirdRuffian (RINOS like Romney, McCain, Christie are sure losers. No more!)
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To: ImJustAnotherOkie

That would need definitely fixing. Bad guys have a bad habit of re-purposing un-exploded bombs. Maybe a timer to go with the regular fuse?


100 posted on 12/18/2014 9:25:16 AM PST by Little Ray (How did I end up in this hand-basket, and why is it getting so hot?)
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