Solar Subsidies Scam Taxpayers And Homeowners

Investors.com ^ | January 134, 2015 | Stephen Moore & Joel Griffith

[familyop]

Choices in some components really depend on where you live. I’m too far from grid power to use it and have certain different system requirements. I mentioned batteries in the comment before this one. Components from various sources were used in the installation here.

Midnite Solar makes the most cost-effective MPPT charge controllers, in my opinion (with the Classics providing built in arc fault protection). They’re tough enough, low priced and made in America (last time I looked). For modules (PV solar panels), large, 24-watt modules will work well with MPPT controllers and will cost less money per watt. For mobile applications and certain other remote, off-grid situations, 12-volt Kyocera modules are great, with at least one vendor shipping them UPS instead of freight.

Switch boxes like the E-Panel should make it much easier for people newer to electrical work to have all of the needed switches for safety and permitting. Other helpful circuit protection includes lightning arrestors or surge protectors. Remember that DC switches must be tolerant of high currents, and that AC switches should not be substituted (unless rated for the DC application being considered).

Adequately large wire gauges are also very important in DC circuits (see the NEC: National Electrical Code). For grid-tied systems, there’s more (for example, the very important transfer switch). The batteries here are connected to each other and the inverter with short, 2/0 cables (very large) made for that purpose (not welding cable, inspectors might get grouchy about welding cables and give a fail).

It’s good to get a copy of the NEC (especially the special part of the NEC for solar systems) and use Internet searches to speed understanding of the NEC and use of good safety measures. PV solar system installs can also be dangerous for the uneducated and those who get complacent.

It’s all worthwhile for most of us, though, in my opinion (but safety first). As for where to get the information, there are information sites for PV solar installations all over the Net. Some of the vendors have some of the best information on their websites. There are also books, of course.

[familyop]

Good ground cables are also needed from modules, controllers, inverters and wherever else prescribed (to the ground, foundation steel or steel plumbing in soil but only as described in code and by component manufacturers). Oh...inverters. There are several good ones, although Magnum, Exeltech and Outback are my favorites for off-grid installation (see listings for applications whether home, mobile, etc.).

For off-grid battery array connections, there are good good sites around the Net for those. Here’s one.

http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/batt_con.html

[driftdiver]

Oh yeah I kicked the guy out. Just pointing out the level of dishonesty that exists in that industry.

[cibco]

BM

[palmer]

Thanks for the answers. I have done solar on my own as well (no subsidies, no grid tie to "sell" power to the grid). I did not mean to defame you for having PV. You have used it where it is the best possible solution, and I believe it is also appropriate with grid tie in some situations (e.g. where one's excess power is immediately used by a neighbor for A/C as it would be in the desert SW).

My immediate concern is (and always has been), the net metering law here in Virginia and that does not apply to you whatsoever.

[lysie]

Thank you for that description.

[Eric in the Ozarks]

The electric utility that serves your area is duty bound to maintain power lines and power supply to your home, no matter how much you use or don’t use.

Would it be fair for the utility to charge a “base rate” fee to cover the cost of the above ?

[eyeamok]

I lived in my campground for a year while trying to get a building permit.
Powered by
12 175 watt 24 volt panels,
8 6 volt Batteries
1 60 amp charge controller
1 240 volt 4000 watt Inverter

runs my 384 feet deep well, washer/dryer, fridge (full size) all the lights I ever want, microwave,TV,coffee maker. All works just fine, You must conserve power at night though, during the day you can run what you want whenever you want
Total cost $6,000 and completely off the grid.

[familyop]

Sorry for my hasty and messy rhetoric. In stead of “What does that mean?” I should probably have written something more like “Retail? I don’t understand.”

Where I wrote that “I also disagree with sponsored propaganda that defames everyone who has a PV solar system,” I was referring to authors of many of the opinion articles like the one above this thread—not to anyone making comments about it.

We don’t want, for example, attempts at property vandalism to result from their generalizations against everyone who uses PV solar systems. They should focus their complaints on the efforts of constituents, lobbyists and their pocket politicians demanding legislation for subsidies and even tax credits (complicating the tax system instead of simplifying it, redirecting revenue collection efforts to other taxpayers, etc.).

[familyop]

"...and I believe it is also appropriate with grid tie in some situations (e.g. where one's excess power is immediately used by a neighbor for A/C as it would be in the desert SW)."

That's a great idea that I was unaware of.

"My immediate concern is (and always has been), the net metering law here in Virginia and that does not apply to you whatsoever."

I'm at a sparsely populated location on the Rockies. But there are many in other kinds of terrain and states, who also purchased lots too far from power lines with low enough voltages for feasible transformers. Yes, we neglected to do enough research on a lot and a state and county government before buying.

More hasty writing follows, but it might contain useful information for some.

But the hardship consequence of being far from power lines is here and needed to be dealt with. Things have also changed. Rates are up, from what we've read, and were already fairly high in some rural areas.

Our system is also less susceptible to ugly weather than the local power company's much larger, more extensive and more costly system (high wind load, spraying ice, closed highways during winter). Granted, we need to have extra components in storage, although none have failed so far. But we don't need to import huge transformers from long distances in the event of failures.

For some of us, studying and carefully doing electrical work, safety, the NEC, PV solar tech., power consumption of various appliances and alternative appliances (no electric dryer, no electric range, no air conditioning, no forced air heating and the like) can make the costs over time very low.

Someone who doesn't have time for all of that might consider hiring a licensed individual electrician instead of a PV solar installer (money vacuums, many of them are). It's part of an electrician's job, and PV modules (solar panels) are much less expensive for the time being.

Years of extra study and tinkering are required, but the benefits might be worthwhile. We'll see. An amount of tens of thousands of dollars is much to some of us but little to others.

There is one other benefit to having less centralized, more distributed energy production: generally more security. That would work out much better, though, if each system owner were to learn as much as possible about batteries (and safety), power consumption of various appliances and appliance alternatives.

Some power companies might do well to try to further distribute and isolate some of their own facilities in good time. It could make market sense in this period of physical changes (not the phony global warming story but the real physical changes) and hysteria produced in exaggerations by media companies.

[familyop]

A good resource follows in a link to a PDF.

ELECTRONIC VERSION 1.93
Dated December 2011
Photovoltaic Power Systems
And the
2005 National Electrical Code:
Suggested Practices
John Wiles
http://www.solar-electric.com/media/wysiwyg/PV-NEC-V-193.pdf

---

familyop rant again: remember, though, that there have been a very few changes since the date of that document. Two, off the top of my head, are MC4 connectors instead of the old junctions required for new PV module (solar panel) installs (nice connectors, easy to use, get the cheap tool, and be very careful by having the input switch to the controller shut off and locked out first, covering the modules, grounding the module frames or rails before connecting, avoiding standing or sitting in water, avoiding touching any exposed leads, etc.). Solar modules (solar panels) can electrocute us! Don’t be a Frankenstein!

Another change might be arc fault protection in the controller or otherwise for at least some installs, if the code folks haven’t extended those to all installs, yet. There may have been more changes (maybe more ground fault circuit interrupts: GFCIs). Ask your solar power component vendor, who should know about any more changes. Do have a good look at lightning arrestors and other surge protectors. Don’t forget “combiners” where needed (for solar panel arrays).

Do pull a permit for the install, if it’s mounted anywhere on your property (that is, anything other a mobile install in your own RV or something like that). A permit is not very expensive at all, and it will make your system better. Some inspectors are very sociable and informative. Others are terse grouches. If you get a grouch and need an answer to a question, write it out concisely and descriptively with full details to give to him in person (usually early, when he arrives at his office). Don’t take any more of his time than necessary.

Don’t energize or turn anything on before the inspection. If the inspection fails, no sweat. Fix the install, and pass. Learn. There are even specifications in code for the amounts of insulation stripped from wires, but it’s not all that hard.

And remember that every time you see anything on safety during tech. study for electrical work, read it. Remember it. Don’t get complacent. Avoid touching anything with a high voltage potential to ground, and avoid grounding yourself in water. Wear good boots, and use insulated tools. Be careful on ladders. Stay far away from power company lines. Consider hiring that licensed electrician. He might not cost as much as you thought. Don’t allow pride to get you zapped.

For those of you already connected to the power grid:

Don’t connect any electrical system to the power grid, unless you know your local laws and regulations and know what you’re doing. Hire an electrician for that. Don’t forget the proper transfer switch as required. Call the local power company office first. They won’t bite you.

[I’m not an expert. I’m not even a licensed electrician. The information above is only rag chewing in an Internet discussion about solar energy. If you need authoritative advice, read from documents written by licensed electricians, power company representatives, electrical engineers and/or PV solar system industry representatives or other experts. Or ask them in person. Be careful! Learn as much as possible about safety in electrical work in advance! Enroll in a school for electrical work!]

[lysie]

THanks for the ping.

We have a 3 foot by 3 foot solar panel that was given to us. If we use it , it would be on the 100% south side of our house that has very little obstruction.

We would love to get it up and running, but we are not sure what "appliances" it would cover...If the water pump, that would be great.

[familyop]

"The electric utility that serves your area is duty bound to maintain power lines and power supply to your home, no matter how much you use or don’t use."

That's good information for many. There are no power lines near me, though. A neighbor who was much closer to the nearest lines said that the cost would be about $28,000 to get a line to his place for a drop. Then a private electrician would have needed to charge a few hundred for installing a basic power drop at his location (pole, cable, connections, meter, etc.), if the line were mounted on poles.

But line-mounted poles would be dangerous here because of the 100mph-plus winter wind gusts each year (somewhat like jets of wind through narrow paths over certain terrain features). Underground lines and a ground mounted transformer would be more expensive, although they're really nice instead of high mounted lines.

But me? It would cost much more than that and wouldn't make sense. After the years of study and follow-up work, it's all good here. With only a dozen or so houses within about 200 square miles, maintenance would be a heavy net cost for the power company. Too far from other services because of county and state regulations for any hope of more density here later on. And the highways closed during winter... I don't want to be a burden on the power company or be without power at times.

"Would it be fair for the utility to charge a “base rate” fee to cover the cost of the above ?"

That would be fair for customers with power drops to their private properties from their local electric companies, in my opinion. Besides, it's there, if they need it. Don't the companies already charge such a rate for customers not using electricity during a service period? I remember a natural gas company doing that (house and business, long ago).

[Eric in the Ozarks]

Are you so far out in the ‘toolies that an electric co-op is out of reach ?
Co-ops dominate much of Missouri. Cheap electricity, public boards of directors, fair dealing even to those way, way out...

[GeronL]

bump

stop subsidizing anything

[familyop]

I’m sorry. That would not be enough PV module for charging a battery for the average AC water well pump (like most well pumps). It might power a DC slow pump for filling a cistern (instead of using batteries), if the well is shallow.

Consider preparing a good pit for a cistern with a float switch and a portable generator hookup. Be sure to compact the bottom of the pit for the cistern adequately, and avoid cave-in hazards. Even a little soil is extremely heavy. Not much fuel is required to fill a cistern about, say, 600 gallons for a household that uses very little water.

Avoid getting a very large cistern, so that bacterial and protozoa buildup in water can be avoided (maybe 1500 gallons or so at most for a household that uses water as much as a typical suburban household). Sanitize the cistern once in a while (once per year or more, find detailed bleach/water mix and sanitizing instructions for that specific task. Be careful.).

The following only applies, if the pump is a 220-volt, submersible pump with a deep pitless adapter (for the waterline exit from the casing, to prevent freezing). For a 110-volt pump, the information will need to be found elsewhere. Most pumps are 220, as far as I’ve seen.

Make sure the generator produces enough power for the pump. Mine needs somewhere over 2,100 watts to handle the surge requirement of a 1/2 HP pump. Most pumps require more power than that. A generator that produces a rated 6,000 watts or more should handle most pumps up to 1 HP except for pumps with cables that are lacking insulation from rubbing on steel well casings.

Strong post. I used an 8x8 inch, pressure treated wood post. The size of post and other protection depends on traffic hazards or other hazards.

Outdoor switchbox of adequate voltage and current tolerance (to go on the post—at least 125% max current from highest pump starting surge). Check local codes for GFCI requirement or not. A 30-amp outdoor switch was overkill enough for my installation, but some installations might need more.

Inlet of adequate current tolerance for the input to the outdoor switch. Not an outlet, but an inlet. There are four prongs showing instead of sockets, and there’s a little spring-loaded weather cover over the prongs.

Four-conductor (three-wire plus ground wire = four), special cable for generator. Harbor Freight had ‘em, last time I looked. Make sure that the gauge is adequate.

Adequate wire gauge and correct wires for the switch-to-pump connection through a junction on the well casing (ask well pump vendor about the proper cable)

Proper wire routing and connections. I forgot what those were, but the info is on the Net. Check your local inspector for possible permit requirement. Besides, the inspector can show or tell the correct wire connections, although those are available here and there on the Net for anyone using a diligent enough Web search.

Run conduit from the inlet to the switch and underground (to proper depth, it was a minimum of 18 inches here, but requirements vary depending on site conditions) to well casing. Install a proper conduit junction box for the cable connection on the well casing (see “bell box”).

Float switch (from cistern to outdoor switch on post, to avoid overfilling and damaging the cistern).

I’m sure there’s more. Look around for information. Study.

An even nicer alternative is a solar water well pump system for a well with a cistern. Look the details up around the Web with the keywords,

solar water well pump system

They work with what are called slow pumps—all that’s needed with a cistern and enough PV solar modules. No batteries required, although a small backup generator is a good idea.

Sorry for the hasty pile of words, but I must get out to do some work now.

[familyop]

Oh, I’ve been in MO but not for ages. On the Rockies now for quite a while. In MO, a house hooked up to the grid would be mighty fine. If someone wants solar energy there in a house, they could do it with a proper installation to code including a transfer switch.

Twice the wattage from modules or more per amp-hours of battery would be need there as compared to here because of the more frequent cloudy conditions (only about 1 watt to each amp-hour here with great charge controller and slightly overbuilt system). I wouldn’t bother with it there, though, but would do the following in MO. Best thing to do there for anyone with a limited budget is to learn much more about appliance power requirements and saving money.

A shed or hobby shack (e.g., a radio shack) away from a house and with no cable from the grid or house would be a good place to install a PV solar system in rural MO, IMO. Any solar system components in the shed would need to be installed as outdoor components, though (rated, weatherproof, steel cabinets). Otherwise, the shed would need to be permitted (not hard or expensive at all in much of MO). Either way, the electrical install would need to be permitted (consult with inspector in advance).

[lysie]

Thank you very much. I appreciate it....a lot.

[lysie]

Not hasty at all. Very “well” done. Get my drift? ;-) Thanks very much. Sincerely.

[familyop]

You’re most welcome, and I catch your drift. ;-) There’s so much more to well pump systems that couldn’t be covered with so little time and so few words.