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A Darkening Market Sky [Maybe; Investment & Finance Thread Feb. 1]
Weekly investment & finance thread ^ | January 30, 2015 | Freeper Investors

Posted on 02/01/2015 10:49:28 AM PST by expat_panama

On the left is the excerpt --from the expert linked in Real Clear Markets A Darkening Market Sky - Anthony Mirhaydari, The Fiscal Times  

  

The Fiscal Times
January 30, 2015

With the first month of the new year coming to a close, it's clear that 2015 is shaping up to be quite different from the smooth, easy climb investors enjoyed in 2013 and 2014.

As recently as late December, the market optimism seemed indefatigable as stocks powered to new record highs on hopes for new stimulus from the European Central Bank, solid U.S. economic data and a strengthening tailwind to consumer spending from the collapse of energy prices.

Now, four weeks later, the sky has darkened. Stocks have returned to their mid-December lows, with a retest of the October lows — which represented the most severe selloff since 2011 — looking likely.

Why?

First, investors are losing faith with the lynchpin of this bull market: The belief in the omnipotence of the world's central bankers. Plus, Greece is riling up the global financial establishment once again.

Corporate profits and outlooks have included some serious disappointments as oil keeps falling to fresh lows and currency market volatility depresses the value of repatriated foreign earnings.

[snip]

On top of all that, a weaker-than-expected U.S. durable goods report suggested that the slowdowns in Europe and Asia might be having an effect here at home. Orders dropped 3.4 percent in December, marking the fourth consecutive contraction and the worst reading since August.

 

      In 2012 and 2013, the market uptrend rose out of the ashes of the fiscal cliff scare and relief over the results of the last Greek election, with plenty of help from global central bankers who locked arms and unleashed a wave of stimulus. ECB chief Mario Draghi made his "whatever it takes" promise in July 2012. The Federal Reserve unveiled its "QE3" bond-buying program that September. And "Abenomics" kicked in after Japan’s December 2012 election, with the Bank of Japan unleashing the most aggressive use of cheap money stimulus so far, including the purchases of both stocks and bonds.

[snip]

Drags include the impact of the stronger dollar on foreign profits, overseas weakness and the drop in energy prices. Although these factors were known heading into the reporting season, the actual impact on results has been more severe than expected, shattering expectations — formed by years of seemingly unstoppable corporate profitability — that results would always and forever surprise to the upside.

According to FactSet, S&P 500 earnings per share growth expectations for 2015 stand at 4.9 percent, down from 8.6 percent earlier this month. Moreover, expected revenue growth has been cut in half to 1.5 percent.

[snip]

In response, I've recommended clients embrace a more defensive posture including long bets on volatility. For the more conservative, consider simply raising the cash allocation in your portfolios.

 

      

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This piece originally caught my eye because it made some sense: seems to me like the investment markets are not going anywhere.  While metals are failing to climb from their bases the major stock indexes sank below their 50-day moving averages and IBD keeps calling it 'market under pressure' as the distribution days pile up.  So Mirhaydari's take satisfied my need for a daily dose of doom'n'gloom.

OK, lets think about this.

Maybe someone can help me but what I'm getting here is that that the world's in turmoil, the economy's underachieving, and stock valuations are bearish.  At first glance it's convincing and then I try and think of when was the last time the world was not in turmoil or when was the economy ever overachieving?  We're down to stock valuations.

The writer hangs his hat on "S&P 500 earnings per share growth expectations" and in this wonderful info-age we can check it out for ourselves.  This site has the historical numbers and a look at the past and yeah, EPS's are in fact stalling like they did back in the dot.com days and in mid '08.

Looking harder I'm also seeing that failing 'growth expectations' really don't help much as a predictor of worse investment returns in the future. I'm looking all the way back to 1870 and instead of seeing a harbinger of destruction, I'm seeing business as usual.

Got to love how we got all the facts here and the facts on stock valuations usually go to both earnings and dividends, and the way they relate to over all market stock prices.

Our friends at NYU got a site where we can download S&P500 earnings'n'dividend stats back to 1960 and imho there's food for thought.  Then again, I would have proffered some magic indicator proving with all certainty that the market's going up or the market's going down.

It don't work that way. 

Maybe we're back to seeing Mirhaydari as being right after all.  Maybe not w/ the doom'n'gloom shtick, but with the idea that it's good advice to "embrace a more defensive posture including long bets on volatility".  Or as IBD calls it, we got a yellow light that means 'proceed with caution'.

Then again, I can't remember ever wanting to invest in any other manner...

 

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This is the thread where folks swap ideas on savings and investment --here's a list of popular investing links that freepers have posted here and tomorrow morning we'll go on with our--

Open invitation continues always for idea-input for the thread, this being a joint effort works well.   Keywords: financial, WallStreet, stockmarket, economy.



TOPICS: Business/Economy; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: economy; financial; mirhaydari; sandp; stockcharts; stockmarket; wallstreet
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To: expat_panama

Perhaps the most famous “last words” in all of financial history: “But it’s DIFFERENT this time!!!”


41 posted on 02/06/2015 4:01:41 AM PST by abb ("News reporting is too important to be left to the journalists." Walter Abbott (1950 -))
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To: expat_panama

NFP +257KK
U3 5.7%


42 posted on 02/06/2015 5:29:01 AM PST by Wyatt's Torch
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To: expat_panama

Boom. Huge report.

January payrolls +257k
December revised from +252k to +329k
November revised from +353k to +423k
Wage growth +0.5%


43 posted on 02/06/2015 5:34:06 AM PST by Wyatt's Torch
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To: Wyatt's Torch
--as the unemployment rate soars to the highest it's been since last year!!!

[adding to 'headlines we'll never see' list...]

44 posted on 02/06/2015 5:53:54 AM PST by expat_panama
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To: abb
it’s DIFFERENT this time!

We hear that because things are different, and changes are about the only things we can really depend on.  Thing is that what ends up being different us more often than not something that we thought would stay the same.  Like, the city of New York's birth certificate questionaire asking "What is the sex of the person who gave birth to the child?"

45 posted on 02/06/2015 5:59:38 AM PST by expat_panama
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To: expat_panama

46 posted on 02/06/2015 6:07:14 AM PST by Wyatt's Torch
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To: expat_panama

47 posted on 02/06/2015 6:07:52 AM PST by Wyatt's Torch
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To: Wyatt's Torch
The WSJ is correct when they point out that payroll employment growth is the strongest its been since 2000, but being correct is not the same as being useful or even honest.  While the U.S. population may be better off than it was a couple years ago, employment growth is still inadequate and conditions are in fact as bad as they were in 2009.


48 posted on 02/06/2015 6:52:21 AM PST by expat_panama
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To: expat_panama

Moving the right direction given demographics.


49 posted on 02/06/2015 7:34:11 AM PST by Wyatt's Torch
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To: expat_panama
Longer term look:


50 posted on 02/06/2015 7:39:12 AM PST by Wyatt's Torch
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To: Wyatt's Torch
All my bellyachin' aside, job growth over the past couple years has been super --any way you look at it.

We've heard the extreme left say that the huge change in '09 into years of low % employed was demographic.  The idea being right with the '09 tax hikes millions of old people suddenly retired and thereafter few of the young wanted to grow up to enter the workforce.   We know demographic trends don't do that; they usually tend to emerge over decades. In contrast the economic impact of fiscal policy shifts can show up from quarter to quarter. 

51 posted on 02/06/2015 7:55:11 AM PST by expat_panama
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To: expat_panama

Turbo Tax has halted filling amidst security concerns

TurboTax Temporarily Halts E-Filing In All States Amid Fraud Concerns

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2015/02/06/turbotax-temporarily-halts-e-filing-in-all-states-amid-fraud-concerns/


52 posted on 02/06/2015 8:03:01 AM PST by Lurkina.n.Learnin (It's a shame nobama truly doesn't care about any of this. Our country, our future, he doesn't care)
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To: Lurkina.n.Learnin

good grief! I’m using H&R but so far they’ve no concerns; same situation as with TurboTax right before today’s announcement...


53 posted on 02/06/2015 8:39:06 AM PST by expat_panama
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To: expat_panama

This market is crazy. Up one day, down the next, repeat & rinse... If you watch you basket of stocks daily, you get the jitters.

Today, the reaction to the increased job numbers took stocks and precious metals down because the smart guys think the fed will raise interest rates sooner. That’s silly as the fed, just like the banks in Europe, needs to goose the economy by printing easy money way into 2016.

I say if you have a selection of good big cap dividend paying stocks, keep them and don’t sell just because of what you read in the finance pages.


54 posted on 02/06/2015 7:35:40 PM PST by RicocheT (us)
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To: RicocheT
We've definitely been having a sideways going nowhere market for some time now.  Worse, all our trusted signals as to future moves have been failing so a classic crash warning gets followed by a run-up and vice versa.  I'm with you with just sitting --not buyin' or sellin', but that doesn't stop me from keeping my watch list up to date.

The reason central banks don't raise rates is not for the economy, they may let folks think that they make economies grow but they know better. All they're good for is for avoiding inflation and they've done such a good job that now they're having to work to avoid deflation.  We're not the only ones w/ sideways bad signal markets I guess.

55 posted on 02/07/2015 2:50:35 AM PST by expat_panama
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