Posted on 02/09/2015 11:01:01 AM PST by jazusamo
The current controversy over whether parents should be forced to have their children vaccinated for measles is one of the painful signs of our times. Measles was virtually wiped out in the United States, years ago. Why the resurgence of this disease now?
The short answer is that false claims, based on other false claims, led many parents to stop getting their children vaccinated against measles.
The key false claim was that the vaccine for measles caused an increase in autism. This claim was made in 1998 by a doctor writing in a distinguished British medical journal, so it is understandable that many parents took it seriously, and did not want to run the risk of having their child become autistic.
Fortunately, others took the claim seriously in a very different sense. They did massive studies involving half a million children in Denmark and two million children in Sweden. These studies showed that there was no higher incidence of autism among children who had been vaccinated than among children who had not been vaccinated.
Incidentally, the "evidence" on which the original claim that vaccines caused autism was based was just 12 children. But the campaign to convince the public was a masterpiece of propaganda.
The story line was that pharmaceutical companies who produced the vaccine were callously risking and sacrificing helpless children in pursuit of profit. This is the kind of dramatic stuff the media love. It never seemed to occur to the media that lawyers who were suing pharmaceutical companies had a vested interest in this story line that the media fed on to the public.
(Excerpt) Read more at creators.com ...
I've proven every single one of your assertions wrong using direct evidence, and all of your responses have been either creative conjecture (hopelessly based on your ignorance of the issue), wild conspiracy theories, and now Nazi analogies. I even showed you direct numbers proving measles deaths in the past 10 years, and you basically said, "No thanks, I'm going to continue to make up what I believe."
So, in conclusion, a reasonable observation can be made that you are scientifically illiterate, historically illiterate, and just plain dumb.
Cheers loser. Enjoy your fantasy land.
Saying something, totally discounting, not proving anything wrong, doesn’t make me the delusional one.
Being unwilling to admit what even the vaccine inserts say are side effects, does not make me the delusional one.
Calling names because you can’t bully me into submission, makes you a bully - not me a loser.
Not wanting parents to have a choice of what goes into their bodies...well, that makes you decidedly not conservative.
Enjoy your “win”.
Don’t even go there. I read Dahl in his own words talk about how he gave all kinds of drugs to his other daughter. So perhaps he did the same to the one who had measles too, weird family.
I just happened to have looked him up a couple of days before, and noticed his first born died extremely young, and went to that part of the wiki article.
So why would a disease expert lie to the associated press, I wonder, or is Snopes less than fallible? Either way, I really love this pattern: over 100 kids get a measles infection and zero die, everybody flips out. Tens of Thousands die because of the flu, and hey, who cares about the dead old people.” Gotta love that irony. And wait, I have to correct myself because children die from influenza too!
Nobody wins when stupidity carries the day. You're immune to facts and evidence, and your actions (based on ignorance and disproven conspiracy theories) are likely to harm you, your family, and those around you.
Because of you, we all lose.
No one wins when individual freedoms are exchanged for profits.
US Amish don’t get autism. ‘Course they don’t get vaccinated either ...
And false too. Vaccines aren't cash cows, and vaccine scarcity demonstrates it. There isn't enough money on it to ramp up production.
But I'm assuming you won't let facts get in the way of a good lefty conspiracy theory. It's all Big Pharma out to steal you precious bodily fluids.
Since when is individual freedom a “lefty” ideal?
We should (at least in theory) be able to agree that the founding fathers created a wonderful system for us - Basically – it is our freedom, right and responsibility to do with our own body as we wish, as long as what we do – does not infringe on the rights of others. My family not vaccinating, doesn’t tread on your right to shoot you and your family with whatever you deem appropriate.
If in fact the government, your doctor, and the companies that produce the vaccinations are not honest about how well that protects you – that’s on you for buying into it, not on me. It sounds like you may suspect you and others are not as well protected as the vaccine makers would like you to believe. Insisting I vaccinate does nothing to protect you further.
There’s a fascinating web of deceit with vaccination makers, our lawmakers, and the CDC.
They spend a lot in political action committees.
http://www.merckresponsibility.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Merck_Jan-June-2014-US.pdf?34e001
Meanwhile, the mumps vaccine was ringing the register at Merck, which reported that sales reached $621 million last year, when including both the MMR II vaccine – which is mumps, measles and rubella – and the ProQuad vaccine, a combination product that is also used to thwart chickenpox, according to a filing with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission.
http://blogs.wsj.com/pharmalot/2014/09/10/did-merck-unfairly-monopolize-the-market-for-a-mumps-vaccine/
Vaccines in general are an almost 30 billion a year industry.
And it’s awesome how the congress authorized a governmental agency to have a non-profit arm that is funded by the very corporate sponsors that want their products approved, everyone from pharmaceuticals to insurance companies, to coke - everyone wants the CDC blessings ;) Maybe...maybe it is all innocent.
http://www.cdcfoundation.org/what/partners
No, it's going to take good old fashioned education and wisdom to bring most around like you who've been hypnotized by leftist talking points. It just proves how powerful the anti-vax cult is when they can actually have Freepers shouting "People before profits!", and thinking they're standing up for conservatism and Founding principles. Not only is it a meaningless choice, it's based in phony facts and propaganda, as we've seen with you.
You seem to be projecting and changing your argument now.
You completely ignore any facts that there are issues with vaccinations - plug your ears and scream “you’re wrong! I’m right” and expect that to be convincing.
You ignore the side effects from the drug company’s own reports and inserts -
Corporate profits with no corporate responsibility is not a capitalistic or conservative value.
Thinking “science” and the government have any hope of working together for the good of the people is so far fetched, I can’t believe any conservative would believe in it.
Nope, I've been consistent the whole time. You are the one who has insisted that I'm "forcing" anything. It's conditional for a social activity where you would put others at risk (public school).
Do you agree that the government can keep your kid from entering a public school if he has measles? Is this bowing to government power under your definition, or do you have the freedom to do anything even if you have an infectious disease.
If you have ebola, are you free to roam around and do whatever you like?
You ignore the side effects from the drug company’s own reports and inserts -
Another lie. I've acknowledged side effects and pointed out the verified incidence of adverse reactions.
Corporate profits with no corporate responsibility is not a capitalistic or conservative value.
Nor is personal freedom with no personal responsibility, which you've shown with your insistence that you don't care what risk you put others in by your irresponsible actions.
Thinking “science” and the government have any hope of working together for the good of the people is so far fetched, I can’t believe any conservative would believe in it.
I agree with this. As long as there are anti-science conspiracy minded kooks out there like you, using science and evidence to help prevent diseases is likely hopeless.
God forbid we have another smallpox.
Your science is full of holes, government influence, protection and a media willing to cover it up - very similar to how they treat obama. I get that you’re ok with that, that you’re livelihood may be associated with one of the capitalistic but not responsible pharma companies...that doesn’t mean calling me names makes you correct.
You’ve barely acknowledged that there are very real side effects about the measles vaccinations including deaths, and want to argue about a possible 2 deaths in 15 years due to the measles.
I don’t care what the schools want to govern parents to do - I want parents to have the choice to make medical decisions for their children.
Heaven help us when the experimental vaccinations are forced on kids and adults because of people like you willing to give up all voice on the matter.
And yet despite this wild claim, you've yet to show any evidence whatsoever that this is the case. I've debunked every one of your assertions using scientific evidence, and all you've done is cling to wild, leftist conspiracy theories.
I get that you’re ok with that, that you’re livelihood may be associated with one of the capitalistic but not responsible pharma companies..
This shows more of your brain rot due to your reliance on conspiracy theories to inform your worldview.
You simply can't handle the fact that you have nothing to back up your claims, and when someone who is smarter and more knowledgeable than you effortlessly tears down that constructed worldview, they MUST be part of the conspiracy.
It's the same tactic used by 9/11 Truthers, and it's both hilarious and sad.
I want parents to have the choice to make medical decisions for their children.
Well, here's the thing. You seem to be confusing parents having a right to make choices in their childrens' health, and parents having a right to make up their own facts.
You don't get to decide what medical treatments are backed up by evidence, and which are not. If you want to treat your child's disease with faith healing and homeopathy, that isn't a choice; it's child endangerment and evil.
If you want to reject the facts and believe wild conspiracy theories, then you don't have the right to pass on the repercussions of that ignorance to other parents' children.
So, while the threat of measles doesn't necessitate compulsory vaccination, it will still be a requirement for public schools because that is what the vast majority of parents (myself included) support.
Put your big boy pants on and deal with it.
It would make it so much easier if you were telling the truth, and were able to prove anything I’ve posted as wrong.
-You have not debunked the vaccination compensation fund
-The links to the CDC and pharmaceutical companies
-That the vaccine science is old
-That Wakefields studies have in fact been duplicated
-The British court just reinstated Wakefield’s co-author, even though he’s retired, he has his license reinstated.
-Dr. Peter Fletcher (who was responsible for vaccine safety in Britain) has indicated that he has seen asteady accumulation of evidence from scientists worldwide that the measles, mumps and rubella jab is causing brain damage in certain children.
-That the Italian courts have ruled that vaccines have caused autism
-That the Japanese have stopped using the MMR vaccine
-That the measles outbreak is a Philippine strain, and vaccinated kids are getting it, not from the unvaccinated but the vaccinated are spreading it.
-That kids struggling with cancer are told not to be around recently vaccinated (because of Vaccine Shedding)
-There are very real side effects that parents can and should make the decision if they want to expose their kids to, including death
-The media is inflaming the “outbreak” even someone as smart as you say you are should be able to figure out that a few hundred cases of measles in a population of 300+ million is not a big deal.
-Vaccine immunity is not life long
-Having the wild measles typically gives life long immunity
I feel a little sorry for your kids, that you would trust the government with them, both their health and education. And although you mock religion, I hope someone is attending to their spiritual education.
Your “science” is the same science that makes babies in the womb disposable, and gives us global warming.
If you really believed what you tried to sell, you would be able to articulate your argument without the personal attacks and inserting complete untruths into what I’ve said or advocated.
There are times conventional medicine does the job, there are times letting nature take it’s course does the job. Choosing to let nature and natural immunity do what it can is not evil, and you should be ashamed that you can’t be honest in your posting.
Autism was “discovered” in 1943 as Sowell says. In 1944, Hans Asperger published his study on “Asperger’s Syndrome”, the mildest form of Autism on the Autistic Spectrum. Therefore, the Autistic Spectrum has been defined since 1944. There are more specific diagnoses now, but the worst case to least bad case of autism has been defined for 70 years. There is a certain amount of greater awareness of autism leading to more diagnoses, but it does not come close to explaining away increase rate of autism in the population from 1 in 2500(1985) to 1 in 68(2010. “researchers from Columbia University reported[2] that approximately 26% of the rise in autism caseload between 1992 and 2005 could be directly attributed to changes in diagnostic criteria,” That leaves the other 74% unaccounted for.
Nope, and didn't try to. Although it was established by the same government that you claim is part of a vast conspiracy to poison us all for profit.
It's a way for pharma companies to initiate no-fault mediation instead of spending years fighting trial lawyers. Its existence doesn't help your case.
The links to the CDC and pharmaceutical companies.
Relevance? Would you prefer they have no links, or that the CDC have no oversight? Unless you have anything specific, this is just alluding to more unproven conspiracy theories.
That the vaccine science is old
On that contrary, anti-vaccine research is old; you're still citing the 17 year old Wakefield study. All of the recent evidence supports the overwhelming conclusion that vaccines are safe. There are new vaccination studies coming out every month. Most of the studies I cited in the American Academy of Pediatrics have been done in the last five years. Here's one from last summer:
Another Study Shows That the Measles Vaccine Doesn’t Cause Autism
Safety of Vaccines Used for Routine Immunization of US Children: A Systematic Review
Let me guess; the Rand Corporation and the Harvard Medical School are part of the conspiracy, right?
That Wakefields studies have in fact been duplicated
I don't know if you're referring to the work of Stephen Walker or Brian Hooker, but neither of them "duplicate" Wakefield's findings, and in fact prove him wrong.
Walker himself admitted that that "this does not necessarily mean the MMR vaccine causes autism", and you're free to look through the whole study yourself and find me one mention of the MMR vaccine or immunizations. Please report back to me when you find it:
As for Hooker, he was looking at findings from an earlier study from a control group in Atlanta, where it had already been established that an uptick in autism cases among black boys vaccinated before the 36 month deadline were "reflecting immunization requirements for enrollment in early intervention programs."
Hooker's article was later retracted by the way:
The British court just reinstated Wakefield’s co-author, even though he’s retired, he has his license reinstated.
The Wakefield study had 12 co-authors. 10 of them requested a retraction, so your point is irrelevant:
The Lancet - Retraction of an interpretation
Dr. Peter Fletcher (who was responsible for vaccine safety in Britain) has indicated that he has seen asteady accumulation of evidence from scientists worldwide that the measles, mumps and rubella jab is causing brain damage in certain children.
So he was Head Medical Assessor to the Vaccine Committee in the 70s. Whoop-tee-doo. He's already been outed as having received £40,000 to pimp for Wakefield using UK taxpayer funded legal aid.
Another scamster outed.
That the Italian courts have ruled that vaccines have caused autism
Already been through this ad nauseam with another anti-vax cultist.
First, courts don't decide scientific findings.
Second, Italian courts have been known to be laughably anti-science going back to Galileo, but as recent as 2012 when an Italian court convicted six scientists for failing to report an earthquake:
Italian Court Convicts Scientists For Not Warning of Earthquake
Third, there are two Italian decisions:
The first case was in 2012 and relied heavily on Wakefield's debunked study and the testimony of one physician named Massimo Montinari, who was well-known for trying to sell an alternative autism "cure". The court completely ignored all other scientific evidence showing no connection.
The second case was from 2014 and involved the hexavalent vaccine, and relied on a GlaxoSmithKline Bridging Report that listed all reported adverse reactions, including spider and mosquito bites, broken bones, "Joint dislocation", "Carbon monoxide poisoning", "Sense of oppression", and "Phimosis", which all could not possibly have been caused by the vaccine. In other words, if this report were evidence in the way the court tried to use it, you could literally use it as proof that the hexavalent vaccine causes all known health problems.
Lastly, there was considerable backlash from the Italian scientific community, and "the Italian Society of Hygiene, Preventive Medicine and Public Health (Società Italiana di Igiene, Medicina Preventiva e Sanità Pubblica (SItI)); the Italian Federation of Pediatricians (Federazione Italiana Medici Pediatri (FIMP)); the Italian Society of Pediatrics (Società Italiana di Pediatria (SIP)); the Cultural Association of Pediatricians (Associazione Culturale Pediatri (ACP)); and the Italian Federation of Doctors of General Medicine (Federazione Italiana Medici di Medicina Generale (FIMMG)) issued a press release to reiterate that there is no link between hexavalent vaccine and autism, or between autism and the vaccine against measles, mumps and rubella.
That the Japanese have stopped using the MMR vaccine
Japan had been using a different variety of MMR which had a strain of the mumps inoculation that had already given children problems and was discontinued in the UK because of safety concerns.
They went back to vaccinating for all three diseases separately which has worked well for them.
Japan has somewhat lower rates of vaccination than other industrialized countries, but they still have a wide and thorough vaccination schedule (Immunization Schedule, Japan 2014); to characterize them as "anti-vaccine" is just ignorance.
Interestingly enough, after Japan stopped using their version of the MMR in 1993, autism rates still continued to go up:
Autism in the absence of MMR vaccine
At this point, you're essentially debunking yourself, so I don't see a need to waste any more calories typing since nothing you've thrown out at this point holds any water. I'll concede that vaccine shedding is real, that the real causes of the 2014-15 outbreak are still being investigated, that vaccines DO have side effects (something no one contests), and that vaccinations must be kept up to date.
If you think the best defense against measles is to go out there and get it, what's stopping you? I hope you enjoy the scars and brain inflammation. Maybe you'll win the Darwin award and be one of the 1 in 500 people who croaks from it.
I feel a little sorry for your kids..
You shouldn't. My kids are healthy and well. My baby girl just got her boosters yesterday, and my wife and I like to practice the modern technique of listening to what your doctor and the medical science says; it's all completely clear what is best for the healthiest children.
Whereas your parenting method when it comes to your childrens' health seems to be "I'll let the kid get measles and miss a coupla days work; no biggie."
Yeah, good luck with that. There's probably someone here who admires you for taking a 17th century approach to medicine, but it ain't me.
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