In 1963, there were about 450 deaths from measles.
Your math is faulty. If in 1963 there were 450,000 cases of measles with 450 deaths, how is that 3 in 100,000?
Posted on 02/09/2015 11:01:01 AM PST by jazusamo
In 1963, there were about 450 deaths from measles.
Your math is faulty. If in 1963 there were 450,000 cases of measles with 450 deaths, how is that 3 in 100,000?
It’s a way for pharma companies to initiate no-fault mediation instead of spending years fighting trial lawyers. Its existence doesn’t help your case.
Except that it shouldn’t be no fault - and why is the government running interference with private corporations?
The somewhere between 5-6 billion dollar payouts indicate there are very real issues with vaccinations
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What oversight exactly are you talking about? The taking of money and then buying the vaccinations? Yeah, that sounds like legitimate oversight to me.
Recently, it was reported “When the FDA finds scientific fraud or misconduct, the agency doesn’t notify the public, the medical establishment, or even the scientific community that the results of a medical experiment are not to be trusted. On the contrary. For more than a decade, the FDA has shown a pattern of burying the details of misconduct. As a result, nobody ever finds out which data is bogus, which experiments are tainted, and which drugs might be on the market under false pretenses.”
http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2015/02/fda_in_jama.html#incart_river
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The vaccine for MMR is built on pre 60’s research. But it makes the pharmaceutical companies a lot of money, so why make it safer when the government requires it anyway?
Time Magazine summed up the relevance of the Poling case in 2008: ...(T)here’s no denying that the court’s decision to award damages to the Poling family puts a chink — a question mark — in what had been an unqualified defense of vaccine safety with regard to autism. If Hannah Poling had an underlying condition that made her vulnerable to being harmed by vaccines, it stands to reason that other children might also have such vulnerabilities.”
Then-director of the Centers for Disease Control Julie Gerberding (who is now President of Merck Vaccines) stated: “The government has made absolutely no statement indicating that vaccines are a cause of autism. This does not represent anything other than a very specific situation and a very sad situation as far as the family of the affected child.”
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/family-to-receive-15m-plus-in-first-ever-vaccine-autism-court-award/
(no conflict of interest at all for ms. gerberding by the way.)
The Japanese stopped using the MMR, not because of autism (but nice try to make it just about autism) but because of
1.8 million children had been given two types of MMR and a record number developed non-viral meningitis and other adverse reactions. Death, blindness and loss of limb control were also reactions from the vaccination.
The rest of your post goes back and forth, it’s apparently ok for pharmaceutical companies to make money, but not for individuals such as Dr. Fletcher.
Your information doesn’t debunk anything - it adds to the complete picture.
Again, its your right to inject your child, hopefully you won’t need the compensation fund...good things it’s there just in case you need more than a few days off work for the measles.
The somewhere between 5-6 billion dollar payouts indicate there are very real issues with vaccinations
I'm sorry you have a problem with the Vaccine Court. I'm assuming you would rather have trial lawyers get bigger payouts. Maybe so they can donate more to the lefty anti-corporate candidates you love so much?
There are not any real issues above and beyond issues that lie with all medical procedures. Nothing is 100% safe in life, however when you're dealing with a small handful of individual cases in tens of millions of doses, that is usually referred to as statistically insignificant. Lucky for us (or at least those of us smart enough to vaccinate our children), vaccines are among the safest medical procedures ever devised.
Recently, it was reported “When the FDA finds scientific fraud or misconduct, the agency doesn’t notify the public, the medical establishment, or even the scientific community that the results of a medical experiment are not to be trusted. On the contrary. For more than a decade, the FDA has shown a pattern of burying the details of misconduct. As a result, nobody ever finds out which data is bogus, which experiments are tainted, and which drugs might be on the market under false pretenses.”
Interesting story, but it has nothing to do with vaccines or the CDC. You should get your agencies straight before making wild accusations. Maybe you should have said "The links to the FDA and pharmaceutical companies"? Or were you not aware that they are different agencies. I know you're not one for details.
The vaccine for MMR is built on pre 60’s research. But it makes the pharmaceutical companies a lot of money, so why make it safer when the government requires it anyway?
The smallpox vaccine was built on research from the 1700s. Who cares?
I'm assuming you think that smallpox eradication was a government conspiracy as well?
Medications and vaccines are made safer likely because most of the people who develop pharmaceutical drugs are not evil and don't want to hurt people. In fact they develop things that help us.
When the corrupting influence of money comes in, or corporate interests violate those principles, we have free and open scientific research and inquiry to keep corporations straight. So far the research doesn't back anything you've said.
Saying that because of government and corporate corruption all products are always unsafe is the Ralph Nader philosophy, which you seem to have adopted. It's interesting to see a Freeper regurgitate it though.
Time Magazine summed up the relevance of the Poling case in 2008: ...(T)here’s no denying that the court’s decision to award damages to the Poling family puts a chink — a question mark — in what had been an unqualified defense of vaccine safety with regard to autism. If Hannah Poling had an underlying condition that made her vulnerable to being harmed by vaccines, it stands to reason that other children might also have such vulnerabilities.”
I find it odd that you would quote Time Magazine, which is one of the greatest purveyors of Global Warming alarmism; it's not a surprise that they are pimping phony vaccine alarmism:
I'm sorry if I don't take their alarmist reporting seriously, and it's no surprise that there's only two doctors (one of which is the girl's father) in the Time article that even raises the possibility of an autism link, which has already been debunked by all current research. The article itself says:
Dr. John Shoffner, the Atlanta-based neurologist who identified Hannah Poling's mitochondrial disorder, is "genuinely puzzled" by the court's judgment. Shoffner, who has been studying and treating these disorders for 20 years, says it's impossible to say whether Hannah's mitochondrial disorder was, in fact, a pre-existing condition that set the stage for her autism (as the government contends) or if it developed along with her autism. A specialist in mitochondrial disorders, he is investigating the relationship between autism and these disorders and plans to present a paper on the topic at the annual meeting of the American Academy of Neurology in April. "In some subset of people with ASD — a small group of patients, I think — mitochondrial dysfunction is an important part of their disease. But it's too early to say whether it gets the ball rolling or if it comes about after the ball got rolling."
The Poling decision was based on the observation that she had a rare genetic mitochondrial disease where they might have been an exacerbation by a series of vaccines, after which one of the many other problems was she regressed and developed autism-like symptoms, and then several months later a seizure disorder.
This isn't a causal autism link, and in no way does it show anything that you're claiming.
I am glad to see that you've largely graduated from posting dubious anti-vax blogs to mainstream media articles. The problem is that the mainstream media can in many cases be as big a disseminator of pseudoscience as your blogs.
The Japanese stopped using the MMR, not because of autism (but nice try to make it just about autism) but because of
1.8 million children had been given two types of MMR and a record number developed non-viral meningitis and other adverse reactions.
You're right, it wasn't because of autism, and I didn't say it was. I just thought it was an interesting aside to cite the Japanese study that showed no autism correlation to MMR.
The Japanese triple shot was discontinued because of negative reactions to a specific strain of the mumps compoonent, reactions that had already caused problems in the UK who had also discontinued it. As far as I can tell there were 3 deaths out of the 1.8 million vaccinations, and those were likely due to some of the MMR vaccines being given after their expiration date.
Japan has the highest incidence of measles of any industrialized country. The Japanese epidemics are a great example of why your lackadaisical approach to measles hurts the rest of us who are responsible with our health. People like you always say "If you're vaccinated, why do you care if I'm not?"
Well, here's why:
Japanese measles epidemic brings campuses to standstill
The rest of your post goes back and forth, it’s apparently ok for pharmaceutical companies to make money, but not for individuals such as Dr. Fletcher.
Dr. Fletcher was doing it dishonestly based on fraudulent research. Big difference.
Your information doesn’t debunk anything - it adds to the complete picture.
Debunking you is easy. Most of the time your sources don't say the things you claim they do, and you post only part of the story and quote things incompletely or out of context and claim that that's evidence.
You can keep lining up the bowling pins for me and I'll keep knocking them down.
I agree. This is getting ridiculous. We are talking about 154 cases, and there has been no measles deaths reported in the U.S. since 2003.
However, there have been 108 deaths due to the vaccine in the last 10 years. Lets put things into perspective.
There are a lot of other things I am concerned about when it comes to my children. Dying from measles in not even on the list.
That's because vaccinations nearly eradicated measles from existence. Before the vaccine there were 500,000 cases per year. And while your child was unlikely to die (approx. 1 in 500-1,000), there was still a good chance of hearing loss, brain inflammation that could cause brain damage, and pneumonia.
Vaccines are the reason you're not worried anymore.
Vaccines are the reason you’re not worried anymore.
*****************************************
So, get your child vaccinated and move on. Do we really need to keep beating this dead horse over a few hundred cases a year.
To stamp out pseudoscience so that we no longer have a half million cases of measles a year (would likely be higher with twice the population in 2015 than pre-vax 1963)?
To debunk people who spread lies about vaccinations, harming the health of others in the process?
To make people provide evidence for their claims about public health issues?
Yes. I'll beat it as long as the anti-vax cult is around.
OK, well let's go strictly by your numbers, since you stand by them.
Please explain how 500 deaths in 1963 (your number), with the most liberal number of total cases (4,000,000; also your number) calculate into 3 in 100,000.
What type of math are you using? I'm getting 1 in 8,000.
What GunRunner hates to admit there were nearly 4 million cases annually and 3 in 100,000 would die. It really affects his hysteria, but he heard that if you were conservative you required everyone else to get vaccinated against there will. He depends on you believing that the 2012 decision was based on a retracted study I confronted him about the fact the study was retracted years before the 2012 decision, but he still relies on loudly proclaiming the 2012 Italian decision was based on Wakefield(there is a Forbes article that says so, therefore, there can be no dissent. He also fails to understand why Wakefield was retracted Gunrunner also can’t cope with studies that reaffirm Wakefield. I am not sure that this troll knows that Wakefield practices medicine in Texas right now
I usually like Sowell. But, this article shows that even the best get it wrong sometimes.
Hans Asperger published his study in 1944. Therefore, per Sowell, the most severe form of autism was delineated in 1943 and the mildest form of autism, Asperger’s syndrome, was defined in 1944. Per a Columbia University study, only 26% of the recent increase in Autism cases can be attributed to a greater recognition and more common diagnosis of autism spectrum disorder. That leaves 74% of the increase unaccounted for. There are funny statistics that autism in Denmark decreased following the elimination of Thermosil from their vaccines in the early 1990’s. Let me know, if you need citation of the now disgraced Journal of Pediatrics 2003 article that ignored data that contradicted the study’s initial goal of disproving the vaccine autism link.
Just for giggles, tell me one left anti-corporate candidate I love?
There are not any real issues above and beyond issues that lie with all medical procedures. Nothing is 100% safe in life, however when you're dealing with a small handful of individual cases in tens of millions of doses, that is usually referred to as statistically insignificant. Lucky for us (or at least those of us smart enough to vaccinate our children), vaccines are among the safest medical procedures ever devised.
Unless you’re a parent that your child dies, develops encephalitis, joint problems, seizures or autism after receiving a “safe” procedure. I think the medical establishment generally considers abortion safe as well. Most conservatives think otherwise though.'
Recently, it was reported “When the FDA finds scientific fraud or misconduct, the agency doesn’t notify the public, the medical establishment, or even the scientific community that the results of a medical experiment are not to be trusted. On the contrary. For more than a decade, the FDA has shown a pattern of burying the details of misconduct. As a result, nobody ever finds out which data is bogus, which experiments are tainted, and which drugs might be on the market under false pretenses.”
Interesting story, but it has nothing to do with vaccines or the CDC. You should get your agencies straight before making wild accusations. Maybe you should have said "The links to the FDA and pharmaceutical companies"? Or were you not aware that they are different agencies. I know you're not one for details.
I’ll slow down here so you can keep up
The CDC seems to be in the business of distributing drugs after the FDA has approved them. So when the FDA isn’t doing their job, then the CDC is distributing based on faulty information. That’s problematic to really know about how safe our medications/vaccinations really are. http://www.cdc.gov/laboratory/drugservice/
The vaccine for MMR is built on pre 60’s research. But it makes the pharmaceutical companies a lot of money, so why make it safer when the government requires it anyway? The smallpox vaccine was built on research from the 1700s. Who cares?
Do you take Tylenol when you don’t need it? Or too much of it? If not why not?
Because it may have side effects that include damage to your kidneys/liver. Women who take naproxen have a higher risk of heart attacks – these are all “safe” drugs. But we don’t take them when it’s not necessary. Some of the compulsory vaccinations may not be necessary.
I'm assuming you think that smallpox eradication was a government conspiracy as well?
I’m sure you thought this was funny when you wrote it – but in reality, the fact is they stopped when the disease was no longer a threat in the US. http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/smallpox/vaccination/faq.asp
Medications and vaccines are made safer likely because most of the people who develop pharmaceutical drugs are not evil and don't want to hurt people. In fact they develop things that help us.
Or at least make money and a name for themselves, even if it's just in the research community.
When the corrupting influence of money comes in, or corporate interests violate those principles, we have free and open scientific research and inquiry to keep corporations straight. So far the research doesn't back anything you've said.
See, there you go again with your OPINION, over the facts I’ve stated. It most certainly does matter if the FDA is not doing their job and when they find out there are issues don’t report it. So what I’ve said, does in fact pan out. You take medication not knowing if faulty research was done. There has never been a true safety study, they always base it against a vaccine trial.
Saying that because of government and corporate corruption all products are always unsafe is the Ralph Nader philosophy, which you seem to have adopted. It's interesting to see a Freeper regurgitate it though.
Nothing I’ve said comes from Ralph Nader, nothing. If you can’t see there are conflicts of interest that are being unaddressed and safety may be at risk, that’s not a conservative or a liberal thing, its just uniformed at your end.
Time Magazine summed up the relevance of the Poling case in 2008: ...(T)here’s no denying that the court’s decision to award damages to the Poling family puts a chink — a question mark — in what had been an unqualified defense of vaccine safety with regard to autism. If Hannah Poling had an underlying condition that made her vulnerable to being harmed by vaccines, it stands to reason that other children might also have such vulnerabilities.” I find it odd that you would quote Time Magazine, which is one of the greatest purveyors of Global Warming alarmism; it's not a surprise that they are pimping phony vaccine alarmism:
Except you are again incorrect – http://time.com/3714990/zuckerberg-vaccines-facebook/ They are very much in favor of forced vaccination and people not thinking for themselves – just like they are your evolution – be careful what you mock, when you really agree with the agenda.
I'm sorry if I don't take their alarmist reporting seriously, and it's no surprise that there's only two doctors (one of which is the girl's father) in the Time article that even raises the possibility of an autism link, which has already been debunked by all current research. The article itself says: Dr. John Shoffner, the Atlanta-based neurologist who identified Hannah Poling's mitochondrial disorder, is "genuinely puzzled" by the court's judgment. Shoffner, who has been studying and treating these disorders for 20 years, says it's impossible to say whether Hannah's mitochondrial disorder was, in fact, a pre-existing condition that set the stage for her autism (as the government contends) or if it developed along with her autism. A specialist in mitochondrial disorders, he is investigating the relationship between autism and these disorders and plans to present a paper on the topic at the annual meeting of the American Academy of Neurology in April. "In some subset of people with ASD — a small group of patients, I think — mitochondrial dysfunction is an important part of their disease. But it's too early to say whether it gets the ball rolling or if it comes about after the ball got rolling."
Aren’t you at all curious why the government is defending the vaccine manufacturers? He contradicts himself as well. It’s impossible, or it’s too early to say?
In fact in med school potential doctors are only told that vaccines are good –
Dr. Bob Sears:
After all, why not just ask your doctor if vaccines are absolutely necessary and safe and leave it at that? It takes all of one minute, then you’re done. No research or effort on your part is needed. Here’s the problem with that approach. Doctors, myself included, learn a lot about diseases in medical school, but we learn very little about vaccines, other than the fact that the FDA and pharmaceutical companies do extensive research on vaccines to make sure they are safe and effective. We don’t review the research ourselves. We never learn what goes into making vaccines or how their safety is studied. We trust and take it for granted that the proper researchers are doing their job. So, when patients want a little more information about shots, all we can really say as doctors is that the diseases are bad and the shots are good. But we don’t know enough to answer all of your detailed questions http://www.askdrsears.com/topics/health-concerns/vaccines/inside-vaccine-book
The Poling decision was based on the observation that she had a rare genetic mitochondrial disease where they might have been an exacerbation by a series of vaccines, after which one of the many other problems was she regressed and developed autism-like symptoms, and then several months later a seizure disorder. This isn't a causal autism link, and in no way does it show anything that you're claiming.
How many times does it have to happen for it to be a “cause”?
I am glad to see that you've largely graduated from posting dubious anti-vax blogs to mainstream media articles. The problem is that the mainstream media can in many cases be as big a disseminator of pseudoscience as your blogs. The Japanese stopped using the MMR, not because of autism (but nice try to make it just about autism) but because of 1.8 million children had been given two types of MMR and a record number developed non-viral meningitis and other adverse reactions. You're right, it wasn't because of autism, and I didn't say it was. I just thought it was an interesting aside to cite the Japanese study that showed no autism correlation to MMR. The Japanese triple shot was discontinued because of negative reactions to a specific strain of the mumps compoonent, reactions that had already caused problems in the UK who had also discontinued it. As far as I can tell there were 3 deaths out of the 1.8 million vaccinations, and those were likely due to some of the MMR vaccines being given after their expiration date. So that’s less deaths than you claim in some years of measles in the states, does that make it deadly or not? Japan has the highest incidence of measles of any industrialized country. The Japanese epidemics are a great example of why your lackadaisical approach to measles hurts the rest of us who are responsible with our health. People like you always say "If you're vaccinated, why do you care if I'm not?" Well, here's why: Japanese measles epidemic brings campuses to standstill
Ahem, don’t lok now http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00000359.htm
And by the way – it’s only the measles, when “they” want it to be reported as the measles –
“Dr. Michael Cooper, manager of the state's infectious-disease program, said the first test was meant to indicate whether the girl's disease was bacterial or viral, with the second test determining its genetic characterization.
"This was the test that told us the strain -- it's an A strain, which is a vaccine strain,"
"It means we haven't had a case of measles in Alaska since 2000 still, and that's great," http://www.ktuu.com/news/news/state-measles-test-on-alaska-girl-comes-back-negative/30969730
Has measles been eliminated from the United States? A: Yes. In 2000, the United States declared that measles was eliminated from this country. The United States was able to eliminate measles because it has a highly effective measles vaccine, a strong vaccination program that achieves high vaccine coverage in children and a strong public health system for detecting and responding to measles cases and outbreaks. Q: What does "measles elimination" mean? A: Measles elimination is defined as the absence of continuous disease transmission for 12 months or more in a specific geographic area. Measles is no longer endemic (constantly present) in the United States.
Still on the CDC website, so much to do about nothing - imported and vaccination shedding is what is causing the current outbreak. Not the unvaccinated kids.
The rest of your post goes back and forth, it’s apparently ok for pharmaceutical companies to make money, but not for individuals such as Dr. Fletcher. Dr. Fletcher was doing it dishonestly based on fraudulent research. Big difference.
This is your opinion, not fact. We've already discussed that John Walker-Smith was completely exonerated - I think you may have Dr. Fletcher and Dr. Thorson mixed up. Dr. Thorson is the one on the run from extradition, for falsifying data and misappropriation of millions in grant money, trying to prove, not that vaccines are safe, but that Wakefield was wrong.
Your information doesn’t debunk anything - it adds to the complete picture. Debunking you is easy. Most of the time your sources don't say the things you claim they do, and you post only part of the story and quote things incompletely or out of context and claim that that's evidence. You can keep lining up the bowling pins for me and I'll keep knocking them down.
So you say…although I suspect there's enough doubt in your brain that you try to re-assure yourself that what you're doing to your kids isn't going to result in ill effects. at what point, do you have the right to say "I don't want that for my kid?"
Thomas Sowell said: “The key false claim was that the vaccine for measles caused an increase in autism. This claim was made in 1998 by a doctor writing in a distinguished British medical journal, so it is understandable that many parents took it seriously, and did not want to run the risk of having their child become autistic.”
Thomas Sowell is one of my favorites, but this piece of his is upsetting. He should know that if he gets this wrong it sends people into dangerous waters.
Thomas Sowell is wrong right out of the gate.
Andrew Wakefield is the British doctor who wrote the 1998 PEER REVIEWED paper for the Lancet (a distinguished British medical journal).
read the paper here: http://web.archive.org/web/20100214185217/http://www.generationrescue.org/pdf/wakefield2.pdf
No where in the paper does Andrew Wakefield or any of his peers tell that MMR causes autism.
From the very beginning Thomas Sowell is going along with the mass hysteria.
Andrew Wakefield is an amazing doctor who has done some amazing work. He has hundreds of families who are forever thankful for his expertise. Prior to the 1998 article published in the Lancet, Andrew Wakefield had 32 peer reviewed papers published. So how is it possible that Andrew Wakefield was attacked by the entire world (to include but not limited to the U.S. “press”)?
I wonder if Thomas Sowell knows the name Brian Deer? Brian is pit bull hired to go after Andrew Wakefield. Brian Deer, a man who doesn’t seem to have any problem lying and slandering. To get a good idea of what Brian Deer is about one only need visit his website and youtube channel.
Brian Deer’s website: http://briandeer.com/
Brian Deer’s youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/briandeer/videos
From the Sunday Times: “It is quite clear that you do not understand English. Brian Deer is not a member of the Sunday Times staff. He is a freelance journalist who runs his own website and blog and is not under the control or direction of the Sunday Times. Mr. Deer should not represent himself as a Sunday Times journalist. He is not a member of staff, does NOT have a regular salary from us, is not on our pension scheme and pays his own tax as a freelance. If he says that he writes for the Sunday Times that would be correct. He is a contributor to The Sunday Times on an occasional basis but again we have no control over him ...” - Alaistair Brett, Legal Manager, Sunday Times
The 1998 published paper that never says that MMR causes autism, is being used as the GREATEST EVIDENCE MMR doesn’t cause autism?
Is that science?
Lets use common sense. If we want to figure out what is going on lets go count all the non vaccinated children who have autism - it won’t take long. Lets start with the Amish and then we can go talk with the home schoolers.
There has never been a study of vaccinated -vs- non vaccinated.
“A talented con man, or a slick politician, does not waste his time trying to convince knowledgeable skeptics. His job is to keep the true believers believing. He is not going to convince the others anyway.” Thomas Sowell
CDC Whistleblower Revealed: https://youtu.be/sGOtDVilkUc
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