Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Are Submarines About to Become Obsolete?
The National Interest ^ | February 14, 2015 | Harry J. Kazianis

Posted on 02/15/2015 5:40:52 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet

What would happen if U.S. nuclear attack submarines—some of the most sophisticated and expensive American weapons of war—suddenly became obsolete? Imagine a scenario where these important systems became the hunted instead of the hunter, or just as technologically backward as the massive battleships of years past. Think that sounds completely insane? If advances in big data and new detection methods fuse with the anti-access/area denial (A2/AD) ambitions of nations like China and Russia, naval planners around the world might have to go back to the drawing board.

Submarines: The New Battleship?

The revelation is alluded to in a recent report by the Washington, D.C.–based Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments (CSBA) called “The Emerging Era in Undersea Warfare.” Smartly named by a certain TNI editor as the “think-tank’s think-tank,” CSBA has crafted in the last decade many of the most detailed and sophisticated reports regarding the most pressing national-security challenges around—sometimes years before anyone else. Ever heard of a little operational concept called AirSea Battle? They were at the forefront of it before it was in the news.

In a piece for TNI, the report’s author, Bryan Clark, lays out the problem in more layman's terms:

Since the Cold War submarines, particularly quiet American ones, have been considered largely immune to adversary A2/AD capabilities. But the ability of submarines to hide through quieting alone will decrease as each successive decibel of noise reduction becomes more expensive and as new detection methods mature that rely on phenomena other than sounds emanating from a submarine. These techniques include lower frequency active sonar and non-acoustic methods that detect submarine wakes or (at short ranges) bounce laser or light-emitting diode (LED) light off a submarine hull. The physics behind most of these alternative techniques has been known for decades, but was not exploited because computer processors were too slow to run the detailed models needed to see small changes in the environment caused by a quiet submarine. Today, “big data” processing enables advanced navies to run sophisticated oceanographic models in real time to exploit these detection techniques. As they become more prevalent, they could make some coastal areas too hazardous for manned submarines.

Could modern attack subs soon face the same problem as surface combatants around the world, where some areas are simply too dangerous to enter, thanks to pressing A2/AD challenges?

Breaking Down the Dilemma:

“We need to think about a new strategy for undersea warfare,” explained Clark in a recent piece for DefenseNews. “Right now we tend to rely on submarines doing tactical operations on their own, in an environment where they can operate largely with impunity. All those things are going to change in the future...”

So what are the United States and other nations to do if Clark’s predictions come to pass?

Consider the problem in these terms: Washington is laying down two Virginia Class Attack submarines a year at a cost of roughly $1.8 billion per boat. These advanced subs were to be the backbone of Washington’s evolving Air-Sea Battle operational concept, recently renamed and now being retooled as the “Joint Concept for Access and Maneuver in the Global Commons” (JAM-GC). With even more expensive U.S. aircraft carriers facing mounting challenges, thanks to A2/AD weapons systems—specifically ballistic and cruise missiles being fielded by China, Iran, Russia and others—undersea platforms like submarines were to help Washington ensure it was one step ahead. While not completely replacing the capabilities of America’s carrier battle groups, U.S. attack subs armed with land-attack cruise missiles (TLAMS) would retain at least a portion of the capability to attack command and control nodes and work to destroy land-based threats, as well as advanced enemy sub or naval surface forces. If CSBA’s predictions become fact in the near-to-medium term, America and its allies will have a major problem to contend with.

The problems deepen when you consider even large issues like the deployment of America’s nuclear weapons. With Washington also needing to replace its aging Ohio Class SSBN submarines—armed with a good deal of America’s undersea nuclear deterrent—the problem set becomes even more dire.

How to Solve the Problem: Underwater Aircraft Carriers?

So what can Washington do to mitigate the problem? While presenting a number of solutions, one alluded to by CSBA’s Clark seems quite genius: essentially turning submarines into underwater aircraft carriers that would carry drone-like underwater unmanned vehicles or UUVs.

“Submarines will increasingly need to shift from being front-line tactical platforms like aircraft to being host and coordination platforms like aircraft carriers” explained Clark in his piece for TNI last month. “Large UUVs and other deployed systems that are smaller and less detectable will increasingly be used instead of manned submarines for tactical missions such as coastal intelligence gathering, land attack, or anti-ship missions.”

One could imagine a scenario where UUVs move into A2/AD environments for surveillance missions, land attack or even hunting manned attack subs, allowing much more expensive and manned traditional submarines the ability to stay out of range. While there are obvious questions—feasibility, cost, if a new generation of “carrier” subs would need to be built or existing subs could be modified into such a platform—the idea seems certainly worth strong merit as a solution. A quick, informal polling I took of multiple security experts here in Washington felt that such an idea was very feasible with existing technology.

Parting Thoughts: Admitting You Have a Problem Is the First Step

As nations around the globe develop ever more advanced commercial capabilities, along with increasingly sophisticated technologies that easily diffuse across borders, traditional areas of U.S. military dominance will begin to degrade unless innovation continues—some would say they already have considerably. Over the last several years, America has come to terms with the challenge of A2/AD and developed various tools to counter such problem sets (think Air-Sea Battle/JAM-GC and now the Third Offset Strategy). Clearly, no military advantage is guaranteed forever. Just as Washington has innovated to find unique ways to maintain its battlefield edge, the challenge that will likely soon present itself in the underwater domain will also be met.

The first step in solving a problem is admitting you have one. For America and what seems like a very threatening challenge to its undersea dominance, we seem to have made that leap and are already working on possible solutions. You can’t really ask for any more than that.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Government
KEYWORDS: defense; military; navy; submarines
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-54 last
To: BobL

Our subs are good. The best in fact. However, building gear to find subs is cheaper than building quiet subs. You posit that no one can find our subs in the near future. I posit that you are wrong.
Do you have a background in sub hunting? Do you understand the new gear and methods being developed and discussed? Old, trusted paradigms get turned on their heads with boring regularity. History is chock full of the wrecks of cocky over confidence.


41 posted on 02/15/2015 8:42:43 PM PST by ExpatGator (I hate Illinois Nazis!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: Paladin2
Rods from God.

Yep, is all going to end up in orbit.

Every last bit of it, including troops.

42 posted on 02/15/2015 10:02:32 PM PST by Talisker (One who commands, must obey.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: terycarl
They can’t fin an airliner that they know the approximate location of, yet they will be able to find a sub that they don’t even know exists????O.K. I guess

What makes you think they haven't found it? Their silence? That's not evidence. Evidence is the existing multiple tracking systems of the various world's militaries. Conclusion is that they not only know where it is, they watched it get there. And they may have helped it get there, too. Only real question is, why?

"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth."
- Sherlock Holmes

43 posted on 02/15/2015 10:09:45 PM PST by Talisker (One who commands, must obey.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

Well, maybe we can train some whales and strap the nukes to them.


44 posted on 02/15/2015 10:22:58 PM PST by Boogieman
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Captainpaintball

Good point. Once you have no need for a human crew, the benefits of decentralization become apparent.


45 posted on 02/15/2015 10:24:06 PM PST by Boogieman
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: yarddog
...Thickness without weight would probably not be much of a problem on ships tho.

I disagree. Steel armor can also be a structural component. Thousands of Aluminum Oxide marbles not only have no structural strength, but when hit with something much bigger than a .308 bullet (think explosive warhead) will turn into a swarm of secondary projectiles. Every man in a nearby compartment would be struck by numerous lethal projectiles.

46 posted on 02/15/2015 10:30:39 PM PST by CurlyDave
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

47 posted on 02/16/2015 12:15:01 AM PST by gunsequalfreedom (Conservative is not a label of convenience. It is a guide to your actions.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ExpatGator

“You posit that no one can find our subs in the near future.”

Read my post more carefully, it’s dripping with sarcasm. We basically stopped our research and upgrades (more or less) under the assumption that the rest of the world had done the same. Not true anymore! Russia still has money and at least had access to the best technology in the world for at least a decade (when they were “our friends”). China is flush with money and doesn’t seem to have any problems getting technology. Both countries are arming up, and we’re worried about integrating LGBTs into the military.


48 posted on 02/16/2015 4:20:06 AM PST by BobL (REPUBLICANS - Fight for the WHITE VOTE...and you will win.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: Pikachu_Dad

the testing has been in progress for this boondoggle for years and years with no workable product to date


49 posted on 02/16/2015 4:38:40 AM PST by bert ((K.E.; N.P.; GOPc.;+12, 73, ..... Obama is public enemy #1)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: BobL

Pardon my mistake. Your sarcasm was missed by me.
I used to hunt subs for a living and know how fast things change. I am also aware, as you probably are, that a great deal of our tech has been pilfered and sold by our enemies without and within.


50 posted on 02/16/2015 7:10:33 AM PST by ExpatGator (I hate Illinois Nazis!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

I view this sort of like when I hear someone tell me that the dollar is worthless. I say, “Fine, give me all of them you’ve got.” Of course, they never do.

If submarines are now worthless, heck, give ‘em to me. I’ll take ‘em.


51 posted on 02/16/2015 7:21:49 AM PST by EternalVigilance (It ain't how much firepower you've got, it's how much metal you can put on the target.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ExpatGator

No prob and thanks for helping to keep the country safe.

What a lot of people here likely don’t understand is that Russia (directly) and China (indirectly, via reverse engineering and production agreements) now have all of our civilian technology (i.e., dual use) and there really isn’t a lot of military-only technology left. In other words, if they want modern weapons, they now can have them.

...and we sit on our butts thinking that nothing has changed.


52 posted on 02/17/2015 5:37:22 AM PST by BobL (REPUBLICANS - Fight for the WHITE VOTE...and you will win.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 50 | View Replies]

To: BobL

The result of the treason will be a World War that we will not necessarily win.


53 posted on 02/17/2015 8:35:01 AM PST by ExpatGator (I hate Illinois Nazis!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 52 | View Replies]

To: BobL
Both countries are arming up, and we’re worried about integrating LGBTs into the military.,

I think the number one priority of all the armed services these days is preventing sexual assaults.

54 posted on 02/19/2015 5:41:44 AM PST by USAF80
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-54 last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson