Posted on 02/27/2015 2:04:57 PM PST by Berlin_Freeper
Where have you guys been since WWII, you never heard of NATO and France and Germany as allies, and today, allied with 26 more nations in NATO?
If Russia attacks NATO, they won't fare well. This is not the old Warsaw Pact against NATO, now the Warsaw Pact is part of NATO, except for Russia itself.
Tonight I’m gonna party like it’s 1939! (and 1914)
Vladimir didn’t pick the moment.
He has been on defense ever since the European Union made moves to subvert Crimea.
Vlad picked the moment he met Obama. Sized him up in a heart beat.
NATO? Oh yeah. I NATO did a bang up job in Korea and Bosnia and Somalia. Yeah, I forgot that. NATO. A bunch of Dutch bisexuals and Pakistani cab drivers in blue elements are going to stop the Russkies. Ol’Vlads quaking in his boots right now.
Me too. It’s 1939 all over again. This time with nukes.
Russian military doctrine unchanged since the Crimean War holds that Russia must maintain unbreakable control of the Baltic Ports to be militarily viable. Obama wasn't even born during the Crimean War, so we can dismiss him as a factor in any way shape or form.
Russia has done a lot of nasty things over the decades since the Bolsheviks took over. That doesn't alter the fact that this is a defensive war against European aggressors in their eyes. All bets are off and they will use their nuclear arsenal until it is exhausted if this requires it.
I suggest you read some actual books written during the cold war in lieu of Wikipedia. There were many thorough (if somewhat dry) books on the professional reading list when I was in the Marine Corps that covered Soviet strategic thinking in detail.
Actually Vlad is shaking in his boots at facing the United States/NATO powers with his military of 1 year draftees.
He would be insane to attack the United States and it’s NATO allies.
The last REFORGER was in ‘92. I got to play :-)
I'd bet we couldn't get a brigade to Europe these days...
5.56mm
I did a few reforgers myself.
We don’t need the reforgers like we used to, but with all the global action, war, and troops/units/equipment/logistics that we have moving under difficult circumstances since 9/11, I would guess that we still know how to move troops and equipment.
This time if we needed to deliver to Europe we would easily control the sea and air, under Reagan we expected to suffer massive losses during transport, a large percentage of us would never have reached Europe.
“According to the International Institute of Strategic Studies’ “Military Balance” publication — a widely-used and well-respected unclassified compendium of information about the world’s armed forces — in 1989, just before the collapse of the Warsaw Pact, the Soviet Union deployed a total of 64 divisions in what was then known as its “Western Theater of Military Operations.” These are the Russian forces that would have been hurled at NATO in an attack on Western Europe. They would have been reinforced by another 700,000 troops from the USSR’s three frontline Warsaw Pact allies, East Germany, Czechoslovakia, and Poland. In all, more than 100 divisions would have been available for a drive into West Germany and beyond. The six countries committed to defending NATO’s front lines — West Germany, the United States, Great Britain, Canada, Belgium and the Netherlands — meanwhile deployed only 21 or so divisions in Germany. While NATO divisions were generally somewhat larger than their Warsaw Pact counterparts and reinforcement would have been forthcoming from the United States, the disparity along the East-West frontier was nonetheless huge.
Consider the situation today. East Germany no longer exists, while Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia and every one of Russia’s other erstwhile Warsaw Pact partners are now members of NATO. So are Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania, which in 1989 were parts of the Soviet Union itself. In 1989, the Red Army had almost a half-million troops and 27 maneuver divisions (plus enormous quantities of artillery and other units) on the territory of its three main allies. Today, it has a total of seven divisions in its entire Western Military District, all of which are based on its own territory. Indeed, the entire Russian army today boasts about 25 divisions, fewer than it had forward deployed in its Eastern European allies during the waning days of the Cold War.
Today, Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, and Germany alone field more divisions than Russia has in its Western Military District. These countries are backstopped by the rest of NATO, including, of course, the United States. And this raw count doesn’t take into account the general deterioration of Russian forces since 1991, a quarter-century that saw little equipment modernization. By the late 1980s, NATO already enjoyed a significant qualitative advantage over the Warsaw Pact, and that edge has only increased since then.
There are questions about the future of NATO’s defense posture. Budget reductions among the European militaries are reducing their ability to conduct high-intensity armored combat. After 13 years of counter-insurgency in Iraq and Afghanistan, the U.S. military must relearn the art of conventional warfare, and spending cuts improvidently executed could hamper America’s ability to respond rapidly and effectively to a crisis along the alliance’s border with Russia. There are no guarantees in international security. But whatever weaknesses NATO may possess must be assessed in context with the severe limitations of Russian military power.
Yes, the United States has many fewer forces in Europe than it did in 1989. But Russia has none, its allies have all switched sides, and its military is but a shadow of what it was 25 years ago.”
Methinks the Bear no longer hibernates.
5.56mm
The German and Japanese forces lacked access to oil. Germany was forced to use synthetic gasoline and when the allies started bombing these factories all was lost.
NATO can handle Russia on the nuclear front also.
Tactical nukes will be easy to use against an invading Russian Army, but difficult for the Russians to use against the military defenses and assets in 28 various nations. Remember, this is about Russia invading us, no one is invading Russia.
Why does everyone seem to think that Putin suddenly wants to destroy himself with nuclear weapons by attacking NATO with a small weak military, and thinking that he can nuke America and the 27 other nations of NATO Europe into surrendering, because he lacks a sufficient Army, Navy, and Air Force?
Where is the sense in this absurdity that the Soviet Union will now be more successful than ever and take over Europe because after almost 60 years of them being around, they suddenly remembered that we all have tactical nukes?
Did anyone ever that little fallout issue with nukes. All depends upon which way the wind blows.
No, this is 2015 and no one ever thought to examine anything to do with nuclear weapons in use between the Russians and NATO over the last 70 years.
You should write someone and bring that oversight to their attention.
Ansel, you have no shortage of confidence in your belief that NATO is capable of waging total war against Russia. As an active duty member of today's military, I do not share your confidence. I wish I could.
My lack of confidence isn't about numbers. It isn't about tanks, planes, ships, bombs, etc. It is about will. And we don't have it.
You talk about 1-year draftees. What do you think the psychological image of German tanks rolling across Ukraine will do to Russia? Here in America, I would bet 90% of the populace could not tell you what day D-Day took place. They probably couldn't even tell you the year. 50% couldn't even tell you the decade. Do you think they're ready to lay their lives on the line over Estonia, Latvia or Lithuania? Countries they couldn't find on a map?
The average Russian citizen can tell you the date of every major battle. It has been drummed into their heads. Monuments and memorials to "The Great Patriotic War" are all over the country. I've seen them.
Here is what is going to happen. Putin is going to do what he wants and up until the point Russian tanks roll into Paris, NATO isn't going to lift a finger.
Vlad would be worried if George Bush were president. Not this clown in office. NATO is nothing more than a speed bump at best.
Russia would be making a very stupid mistake to invade NATO.
You guys keep forgetting that no one is invading Russia, Russia is invading Ukraine and threatening invading NATO.
If you choose to think that the United States and the other 27 nations of NATO can’t defend themselves from Russia and must submit to them in advance, then you have an attitude that I have never seen in the American military.
When did you guys come to this conclusion that Russians are square jawed supermen and we are incompetent boobs and losers, is this just Putin worship?
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