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US supercarrier ‘sunk’ by French submarine in wargames
news.com.au ^ | MARCH 06, 2015

Posted on 03/05/2015 5:57:38 PM PST by sukhoi-30mki

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To: sukhoi-30mki
Not surprising. The current USN thinking on ASW is to eliminate it without replacement.

1. S-3B Viking carrier based, dedicated ASW asset retired early with no replacement.
2. Dedicated MH-60R helos are too few and do not have the range or loiter time to do the job the S-3B used to do. The MH-60R is the only afloat ASW asset.
3. Dedicated P-3C land based ASW is being phased out and retired in favor of P-8A and Broad Area Maritime Surveillance [BAMS] drone (the MQ-4C Triton drone is based on the RQ-4 Global Hawk).
4. If the total P-8A/BAMS (drone) package would have been procured, the bottom line is the replacement would not have made up the loss of the P-3C’s. As it is, both programs are late and over budget. This translates into FEWER of either type being purchased and put into service.
5. The fast attack sub community [at least one is assigned to each carrier or amphibious battle group] is facing block retirements of boats with no replacement and soaring costs that guarantee fewer SSN's will be built.

I have absolutely know idea how the USN intends to protect is major surface combatants against the submarine threat. Maybe Navy strategists think they can outsource the job to allies [fat chance] or, just maybe, they hope the problem will go away if it's ignored long enough. The problem is this kind of “kick the can down the road” reasoning gets people killed and ships sunk in a REAL war. Yeah, yeah, Obonzo says that global warming [climate change] is DoD’s and the Navy's biggest threat.

41 posted on 03/05/2015 7:35:17 PM PST by MasterGunner01
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To: Daus

It has been there a while.

42 posted on 03/05/2015 7:37:30 PM PST by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: gaijin
Utility of carriers sunsetting now..?

Other than against foes without Russian/Chicom level countermeasures, probably not.

43 posted on 03/05/2015 7:37:33 PM PST by doorgunner69
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To: sukhoi-30mki

“Somehow, the French submarine must have been able to slip between the defensive sensor patchwork of patrol aircraft, helicopters, warships and submarines to line up a shot on the $13 billion monstrosity.”

The White Hutters will celebrate this because its not fair that we have Carriers and some others don’t.


44 posted on 03/05/2015 7:41:54 PM PST by Brooklyn Attitude (Things are only going to get worse.)
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To: sukhoi-30mki
Somehow, the French submarine must have been able to slip between the defensive sensor patchwork of patrol aircraft, helicopters, warships and submarines to line up a shot on the $13 billion monstrosity.

There she lurked as a fictitious political crisis evolved in the world above.


These two lines come pretty close to directly contradicting one another.

US carriers don't operate in a manner that allows submarines to sneak inside their defensive perimeters and just "lurk" until the kill order comes. The need to put wind over the deck to launch aircraft means that they are constantly in motion, covering significant distances ... even if they are operating in a geographic "box" to keep close to their intended target(s).

So this was either a one-in-a-million "golden bb" shot where the French SSN ended up in exactly the right place at the right time, or the operational parameters of the exercise were constrained to allow the French SSN through the outer defensive rings in order to test how well a CSG would deal with a sub that somehow managed to get in close.
45 posted on 03/05/2015 7:42:38 PM PST by tanknetter
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To: RicocheT
We have been in a “it can’t happen to us” peacetime mindset since the cold war ended. Meanwhile, Red China has become a credible military threat and little guys such as Iran & N. Korea have got the a-bomb and rockets that can reach our shores in a few years. Russia isn’t likely to attack us, but is selling arms & tech to our likely rivals just to make trouble.

Let's see, while China has an army of scientists and engineers, a low cost work force that is not encumbered by political correctness and a sense of nationalism so thick you can cut it with a knife; students in the US all know last night's winner on "American Idol" and the bar where the latest drunken actor choked to death on his own vomit.

Every whitepaper I've seen on the subject of "fiber optic gyros" over the past 25 years has been authored by a Chinese.

I can see where there might be some room for concern.

46 posted on 03/05/2015 7:51:01 PM PST by The Duke
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To: RicocheT
where is our iron dome?

IIRC, that was one of the first things Obunga cut back upon seizing power.

Coincidence? I think not.......

47 posted on 03/05/2015 7:54:52 PM PST by doorgunner69
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To: ThePatriotsFlag

Conventionally powered CV 67 was decommissioned in 2008. Sadly was not allowed to be upgraded to a nuke power plant and kept in service. Now in Philly Naval Storage awaiting fate.


48 posted on 03/05/2015 7:57:19 PM PST by John S Mosby (Sic Semper Tyrannis)
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To: sukhoi-30mki
It is better to get curbstomped in an exercise than to learn the lesson in a real battle.

In real wars the enemy sometimes gets lucky.


49 posted on 03/05/2015 8:19:55 PM PST by GreenLanternCorps (Hi! I'm the Dread Pirate Roberts! (TM) Ask about franchise opportunities in your area.)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

When “Gulliver” is in an induced coma, it’s easy to prevail.


50 posted on 03/05/2015 8:31:50 PM PST by G Larry (I'm not here to make liberals happy.)
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To: onedoug

Ah, but the strawberries, that’s, that’s where I had them, they laughed at me and made jokes, but I proved beyond the shadow of a doubt, with geometric logic, that a duplicate key to the ward room icebox did exist, and I’ve had produced that key if they hadn’t pulled the Caine out of action.


51 posted on 03/05/2015 8:44:17 PM PST by windcliff
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To: windcliff

“But he wasn’t in the ship.”


52 posted on 03/05/2015 8:51:00 PM PST by onedoug
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To: EQAndyBuzz
I am calling BS. No one would call this a monstrosity unless there was a political motive here.

Bump. Stupid is kinda letting his slip show, isn't he? His KGB case officer will want to sharpen up the guy's tools a little bit.

OTOH, these ASW exercises have always been tough for the good guys to win, going back 45 years..... Read Blind Man's Bluff for a good 90's-era account of the secret submarine cold-war operations since World War II. Reading the appendices, it turns out I rode the Pargo (SSN 650) smack in between back-to-back "Ivy Bells" missions to the Barents. I knew those guys were good, but I didn't know they were also spookland heroes.

53 posted on 03/05/2015 9:03:18 PM PST by lentulusgracchus ("If America was a house, the Left would root for the termites." - Greg Gutfeld)
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To: John S Mosby

Kennedy was an absolute mess after going through ‘overhaul’ at Philly at the same time the shipyard was shutting down. There wasn’t any possibility of fixing this ship.


54 posted on 03/05/2015 9:13:21 PM PST by GreyHoundSailor
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To: central_va
It transited at 25 knots underwater for about a week. During that week it screamed along broad casting its position.

Not necessarily true.... In 1969 a Northern Fleet Echo-II SSGN equipped with "Prairie Masker" equipment actually made it from the Kola Peninsula to Cienfuegos, Cuba without once being detected after leaving its base. Post-analysis of a huge pile of data identified ONE detection of the target creeping along the Greenland shelf in shallow water.

55 posted on 03/05/2015 9:16:32 PM PST by lentulusgracchus ("If America was a house, the Left would root for the termites." - Greg Gutfeld)
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To: GreyHoundSailor

Had heard that, and a lot else— that the ship was nearly continually “jinxed” or “albatrossed” with accidents and performance/maintenance issues, possibly shipyard union related. At least 5 episodes of dockyard arson, even in drydock.


56 posted on 03/05/2015 9:16:41 PM PST by John S Mosby (Sic Semper Tyrannis)
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To: John S Mosby
The JFK had a bad shipyard fire while still u/c..... Perhaps KGB had dialed her up for sabotage? The Reds once had big pull with a lot of unions.... The Electricians' Union was wholly Communist-run (Betty Friedan, according to one bio of her available online, came up as a prolefeed writer for their union newspaper) in the 50's.
57 posted on 03/05/2015 9:22:40 PM PST by lentulusgracchus ("If America was a house, the Left would root for the termites." - Greg Gutfeld)
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To: John S Mosby

Spent a frustrating year on a CG escort in their BG. CV-67 discovered something was wrong with their CIC surface search radar only after several underway periods. Tech Reps determined the connection between the radar and the display had a ten foot ‘air gap’ - the cable had been cut and not re-attached. Every week had a similar tale.


58 posted on 03/05/2015 9:27:13 PM PST by GreyHoundSailor
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To: lentulusgracchus

Indeed. No surprise. Dad was sub-driver. The Thresher disaster was discretely linked to defective welding, caused by shabby construction at a time when the unions were not shall we say.. “patriotic”. It was criminal, just like the arsons. But then— that’s who these people are— the laborite rabble rousers- Reds. It’s why the Navy got the Mafia’s help to control the dockyards/shipyards labor in WWII, with Lucky Luciano’s help— and he did it. Commies and nazis equally bashed about the head and “put out of the locals”


59 posted on 03/05/2015 9:29:49 PM PST by John S Mosby (Sic Semper Tyrannis)
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To: MasterGunner01
The MH-60R is the only afloat ASW asset.

Interestingly enough, the primary submarine detection, tracking, localization and classification device on the Romeo, the AN/AQS-22 Airborne Low Frequency Sonar (ALFS) was built by... You guessed it! The French!

60 posted on 03/05/2015 9:51:23 PM PST by Drew68
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