Posted on 04/05/2015 9:41:04 AM PDT by Kaslin
I believe we are seeing the first glimpses of religious revival. Hopefully...
That backlash will have to be initially led by Conservatives that see solutions to massive problems the Democrats have created. It will take someone like Cruz to present this to voters before they will rebel against the Left.
That’s why I support a man like him, for without them, there is no conviction in the public’s minds that there is a better way.
This has been the major missing component since Ronald Reagan. There has been very little vision on the right, and even less presentation of it at the top.
That’s the massive problem California has. Look what an absence of Conservative principles at the top has created there.
How do you know whether or not pastors such as John Cotton, Wesley or Whitefield were not inspired to make those observations???
I for one certainly see the type/anti-type biblical application of the physical to the spiritual, as did they. They saw a nation in the wilderness not led by a cloud or pillar of fire, but by the Holy Spirit. Who are you to assert that was not an inspiration?
Clearly our foundations as a people and nation can be seen in the first fifteen verses of Deuteronomy 28. Or will you assert also that book only applied to Ancient Israel?
As such, it is an opinion.
That is the kind of pride that would assert Peter's vision was also 'just an opinion'.
Today, missionaries are coming here.
Not all of us. Some of us still go out to the nations where the Name of Christ has not been heard.
It is an interesting argument - that the Word of God means what “smart” people think it means
That's a great twist by an intellectually superior person. As a fool and simpleton, perhaps it would have been wiser if I used the term, 'more humble' to describe the intelligence of the Patriarchs of our nation that saw and understood what enlightened persons today do not see or understand.
This is not a support for stealing from Israel that which was given to her by God.
"Stealing"?? Ancient Israel is gone and lost. How is this "stealing"?? So God's blessings and cursings for obedience and disobedience are finite and can only be applied to specifically-stated persons or nations He declared them to?
Interesting.
Repentance is always correct. It “starts with the household of God.”
Considering the Patriarchs and Founders of our nation insisted that the church influence the culture in order for the nation to prosper - what you see happening today with our decline as a nation is a direct result of the curses you can read about in Deuteronomy 28 that I assume you assert only applied to ancient Israel.
God’s timetable is His alone.
Can we not read the signs of the times?
“How do you know whether or not pastors such as John Cotton, Wesley or Whitefield were not inspired to make those observations???”
If their words and writings were inspired, they would be part of the canon of Scripture. They are not.
“Who are you to assert that was not an inspiration?”
It isn’t about me. It is about the closing of the canon of Scripture, unless you intend to add to it. I don’t think that is your intent.
“Clearly our foundations as a people and nation can be seen in the first fifteen verses of Deuteronomy 28. Or will you assert also that book only applied to Ancient Israel?”
Israel. Just because your opinion is that there are parallels does not mean it is about us.
“That is the kind of pride that would assert Peter’s vision was also ‘just an opinion’.”
Peter’s vision was given by God and recorded as part of Spirit-inspired Scripture. Fact.
“Not all of us. Some of us still go out to the nations where the Name of Christ has not been heard.”
Oh, we are sending many still.
“Stealing”?? Ancient Israel is gone and lost.”
Israel exists today. Jews who have covenant promises exist today.
“How is this “stealing”??”
Stealing is taking what does not belong to you and doing so without permission from the person it belongs to.
“So God’s blessings and cursings for obedience and disobedience are finite and can only be applied to specifically-stated persons or nations He declared them to?”
God’s specific promises to a specific nation are for them alone. Stay away from identity theft and theft in general.
“Considering the Patriarchs and Founders of our nation insisted that the church influence the culture in order for the nation to prosper - what you see happening today with our decline as a nation is a direct result of the curses you can read about in Deuteronomy 28 that I assume you assert only applied to ancient Israel.”
Of course they applied to Israel. In general though, righteousness exalts a nation.
“Can we not read the signs of the times? “
We should be aware. We do not know.
best.
We're not discussing the canon of scripture or the adding or subtracting to scripture.
I'm asserting that blessings, cursings and principles found in scripture, can be applied to nations and peoples not specifically addressed to those whom the tablets of stone were given to. You are asserting they cannot.
Israel. Just because your opinion is that there are parallels does not mean it is about us.
Did not say it was only about us. Your methodology sadly, is how a people create two different Gods from one book. This is why some will say the old God is done away, and nothing in scripture applies to us today - only what is written in the letters to the churches, whom men incorporated as canon while scripture itself is 'nailed to the cross'.
All scripture is given by inspiration and for use in instruction, reproof, correcting and training. If the blessings and cursings upon a nation of people who call themselves by His Name only apply to Ancient Israel and not to anyone else today - it explains how and why there is no fear of the Lord among even His own people today.
Israel exists today. Jews who have covenant promises exist today.
Not exactly. The tribes of Israel themselves are gone and lost. What exists as the state of Israel today are made up of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin and Levi - what was the Southern Kingdom of Israel. Jews. The Northern 10 tribes were taken into captivity by the Assyrians and lost to history.
Stealing is taking what does not belong to you and doing so without permission from the person it belongs to.
As if the blessings and Judgments of God were finite. I imagine the Pharisee converts in the first century would share this view in terms of whom they asserted the promises only belonged. They too saw gentiles grafted into the Vine as 'stealing'.
In general though, righteousness exalts a nation.
If blessings and cursings as outlined in II Chronicles 7:13-14 and Deuteronomy 28 only apply to Ancient Israel - how can righteousness exalt any nation except Israel?
Wouldn't that be 'stealing'?
“If blessings and cursings as outlined in II Chronicles 7:13-14 and Deuteronomy 28 only apply to Ancient Israel - how can righteousness exalt any nation except Israel? Wouldn’t that be ‘stealing’?”
The passages I listed and others show God’s GENERAL principle that righteousness exalts a nation.
You cannot “steal” a general priciple. It is universally true, as revealed by God.
You can steal promises from covenants that are not made with you.
The specific blessings and curses we referred to were part of the covenants of Israel - part of the Abrahamic. Solomon specifically refers to them in his prayer. They are not for any nation but Israel alone. God gave the covenant and walked between the pieces of sacrifice, entering into the covenant with Israel.
Our nation and no other has made a covenant with God as Israel did.
“Did not say it was only about us. Your methodology sadly, is how a people create two different Gods from one book. “
Then you misunderstand my point. Perhaps it is the medium of an online forum.
There is one God. He made a specific covenant with one nation.
“Not exactly. The tribes of Israel themselves are gone and lost. What exists as the state of Israel today are made up of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin and Levi - what was the Southern Kingdom of Israel. Jews. The Northern 10 tribes were taken into captivity by the Assyrians and lost to history.”
I can’t resist this. There are no lost tribes to God. He knows every single member and promises to regather them again instantly when Christ returns on the clouds.
All of that is an interesting opinion.
As to Ancient Israel - I did not say they were lost to God, I said specifically, they are lost to history - and lost to us.
They are no longer a nation.
As such, you cannot ‘steal’ something from an entity that no longer exists, despite your opinion.
Well, as long as you found some scriptural promises laying unused by the side of the road, finders keepers!
Ha! Sorry FRiend. Still theft. Why go back to the OT promises to Israel, tin cup in hand, when He has given us such rich blessings in Christ?
God isn’t done with Israel yet. They exist and He knows exactly who each person in each tribe is. Every promise will be kept, down to the smallest punctuation.
God is always faithful.
Because we were talking about the application of II Chronicles 7:13-14 to a nation of people who call are called by the Name of God. That would include Christ, His Only Begotten Son of whom this people in this nation call "Lord".
You say no - the OT no longer applies to nations or people today unless God specifically names them. You have a big surprise coming.
” Because we were talking about the application of II Chronicles 7:13-14 to a nation of people who call are called by the Name of God. That would include Christ, His Only Begotten Son of whom this people in this nation call “Lord”.”
If you take the passage out of context, truncating it and then claiming the parts you wish to claim as a promise, you have done it violence.
“You say no - You have a big surprise coming. “
Well, I don’t think so. Righteousness exalts a nation. Historically, God judges nations - eventually. I certainly won’t be surprised.
I will correct one part of what you wrote...
“the OT no longer applies to nations or people today unless God specifically names them.”
The issue is just taking a passage that is part of Israel’s covenant. It was written just to them. God’s covenant was with Abraham and his descendants.
In any case, we agree that America should repent.
Best.
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