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"But saying that someone who has paid into the system his whole life should get nothing because he has a lot of other income in retirement seems wrong to me."

But that's exactly how most government programs work. I've paid income taxes my whole life. The government doesn't pay me any of that money back.

The problem is people think SS is some kind of 401K. It's not. You've been paying SS taxes to fund other people's retirement just like you pay income taxes to fund welfare or crop subsidies or defense. It stopped being your money when the government took it out of your check.

But that's exactly how most government programs work. I've paid income taxes my whole life. The government doesn't pay me any of that money back.

I don't disagree. There are intangible paybacks however; it's proper for tax money to be used for national defense and to raise money for armies and navies; there is a basic "infrastructure" of government...legal systems and courthouses, public records, etc. All of these things could be said to provide some benefit to you.

With SS though, employers and individuals have been paying 13% of their income to fund this "security" in our older age. The return was horrible, and you could make a long litany of of ways this could be better managed, but I realize that SS for others, as well as other government programs comes from the taxes we pay.

Means-testing to the point where we completely eliminate any payment seems grossly unfair. As I said before, my intended retirement savings represents a lot of sacrifice, doing without, and living a more modest lifestyle. I should get something for that, but according to the government, I will only be penalized.

>> I’ve paid income taxes my whole life. The government doesn’t pay me any of that money back.

That’s a red herring. Income tax was set up AS A MEANS OF FUNDING GOVERNMENT OPERATIONS.

Not so, Social Security. It was set up AS A FORCED RETIREMENT SAVINGS PLAN. That was its purpose from the very beginning.

All your talk about how it’s just another tax and it’s not a pension plan is merely you blowing smoke up our obamas. Social Security walks like a pension plan, and it quacks like a pension plan. It is, de facto, a pension plan.

Are you a Krispy Kreme fanboy, by chance?

That is correct. SS keeps an accounting of your contributions and earned benefits, based on the law as it is written at the time. But there is no lock box full of your money waiting for you. And in fact the whole shooting match exists only on the strength of statute. Social Security could legally be totally repealed at any time, and there would be nothing that anyone could do about it.