Posted on 05/09/2015 5:53:54 AM PDT by cuban leaf
Sshhh. You are not supposed to guess the answer or tell others.
There was a time when your kids helped with farm chores from an early age. When the "old man" finally died the eldest son would take over the operation.
I graduated High School in 1961. My graduating class had several boys over 20 years old. These boys weren't stupid or held back, they were pulled from school by their fathers to do farm work or logging to earn cash for their families.
After graduation I worked for a year or so in the woods to earn cash for my first year of college. I cut pulp wood for the paper industry and scrub oak for the Kingsford Chemical plant, you probably know of them for their charcoal...
I made enough to carry me through my first year, after that it was student loans w/ interest deferred 'till graduation (good deal!)
Regards,
GtG
Yes, yes and yes.
They let the woman drive away with her boys and THEN they took them away. If she had stayed in the house and required a warrant, it might have gone down differently.
I’m in a band where all members are in a family except me. that family mirrors this one. But they know their rights and are loaded for bear regarding this sort of thing. There are a lot of families like this in KY. It’s part of what makes it such a great state.
These kids are living feral, no utilities, inadequate “shelter”, specifically they are living in makeshift tents. No sanitation, no medical care, no dental care, no clean clothes, no clean dishes, inadequate food, they are living like cavemen. These parents are complete loons and the state took too long to rescue these kids.
As I’ve posted earlier, there may be *some* truth to that, but if that were the reason they would have to take half the kids in eastern KY.
And in a free country, that stuff is none of my business. Not my kids. And I like others to respect my relationship with my children the same.
And who are you or I to say when it IS the right amount of cleanliness in their clothing?
BTW, you can judge a tree by its fruit. Do those kids look malnourished? Do they look neglected - physically or in any other way? What about kids that are well fed, have huge private bedrooms, but never see their parents and are raised by the school system an/or nanny’s? Those are the ones I would like to see removed from their parents.
But I, like you and the state, am not God. They are not my kids. My power to inflict my sensibilities on others ends at my front door.
FDA agents will literally wait around hiding outside a farm they suspect of “selling” raw milk and wait until dad leaves and then drop by and question the mom about stuff. And when they can, they’ll try to catch the kids alone and question them to try to get them to reveal something they can act on.
And the whole thing is a scam. Raw milk was dangerous when it was being sold to millions in a world without refrigeration. The world has changed.
But the FDA is living in the dark ages. They like it there. It was a world where they could control people.
I’m TOTALLY with you regarding unschooling.
Any parent with ANY COMMON SENSE knows that kids have NO IDEA why they need to be educated in our world - it is us adults that have to drag them through it. If some of us want to do that through government schools, private schools, or home schooling, that is fine. But if some parents REFUSE to do that, they need to be in a business other than raising kids.
Secondly, ‘unschoolers’ do TREMENDOUS DAMAGE to the home schooling movement - where people have fought for decades to be allowed to educate their own kids, in their own ways, and not have to hide them in the attic (like runaway slaves) when authorities show up. Hell, us home schoolers are even permitted to teach math WITHOUT calculators and reading using PHONICS - two methods that would get you jailed if you tried that in public schools.
These ‘unschoolers’ take advantage of our home schooling gains, but turn around and give government VALID JUSTIFICATION to start taking back those gains. We have to be just as tough on these clowns as government wants to be on us.
(obviously I don’t know the specifics of this case...if they are actually being home schooled...then the government has committed a crime, but if they’re not being educated, they need to be moved into an environment where that will happen)
I read it. They are not people I would want to hang around with, but I defend their right to live their life the way they see fit and “pursue happiness” in whatever way floats their boat as long as it does not infringe on the rights of others. And their children are a gift TO THEM from God. He has given charge over them to the parents.
But this is interesting: “Nicole Naugler told the officer that she wouldn’t report a neighbor for abuse even if the child was bloodied from beatings. The recordings also include Nicole Naugler refusing to answer in the negative when asked by the sheriff’s officer about whether they would use weapons against law enforcement.”
I would answer the same way she did to the second, and close regarding the first. If a law enforcement officer enters my life in an unlawful way, he is not protected by his badge. At that point it becomes mano a mano. Regarding the beaten child, if they are clearly a victim of battery, a law has been broken. I’m talking blood and bruises.
It is way past time that agents of the state start dying over this kind of crap.
I confess that I certainly would not raise my kids the way these people did, but it’s not that I think it is wrong. Rather, I’m hooked on our modern world too much.
I'm perfectly aware the CPS and other government organizations can act like modern-day Nazis but that is not usually the case. CPS needs to get children out-of-harm's way anytime there is possible merit to the accusation until it can be determined that the situation is safe. The default position is to be on the safe side and take action. This family's lifestyle is unusual enough that it raises red-flags. Hopefully, the investigation is completed quickly and the children can be returned to their family because it can be determined that there is no danger to the children.
Unlike some others, I wouldn't put too much stock in the photograph. The family certainly cleans up well but that doesn't necessarily mean that they look like that all the time.
Earlier this week, I had a conversation with another church elder about the CPS. We had become aware of a potential abuse situation. The authorities had acted and put the victim out of danger. Given the circumstances, we agreed that it would have been a really tough call on the authorities' part but they made the right call. The conversation surprised me because in the past, this man had been highly, highly critical of these authorities.
I have a long memory regarding the state and its treatment of adults when children are involved. I’ve seen too many stories like this one:
https://www.bing.com/search?q=wenatchee+child+abuse+scandal
Time told that it was every bit as corrupt as it appeared.
And it is but one such story.
bfl
CPS needs to get children out-of-harm’s way anytime there is possible merit to the accusation until it can be determined that the situation is safe.
Subjective words need qualifiers. And that is the rub. This whole story is “subjective”. My neighbors live in a single wide that has a very well manicured lawn. But if you go inside, it LITERALLY looks like a garbage dump. I’m talking garbage stacked against the walls, etc. They also have a large hole in the living room floor covered by a 4x4 steel plate.
None of my business. The kids are fine, and are not beaten bloody. With freedom comes some tough decisions and consequences.
I prefer freedom over living in a clean zoo. Does that mean I have neighbors with a dumpy lifestyle? Yep. And they have that right as long as they don’t live in Singapore. And I have the right to place my home in a spot on my acreage where I don’t see that stuff.
I guess we’ll see in the days to come but I’m guessing that this report is pretty one-sided. Simply reading it makes me question its credibility.
Notice the kids don’t have SSN’s? That is “proof” they are nutjobs to many. It proves to me that they are willing to, as John Adams said, risk their “comfort” for freedom.
Another example;
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/children-ky-home-no-power-water-cops-article-1.1564948
Nine malnourished children taken from Kentucky home without electricity or running water: police
The youngest, a 2-month-old child, was hospitalized for malnutrition, dehydration
and hypothermia. Five others were also admitted, one similarly for malnutrition
and dehydration, police in Morehead said Wednesday. The children, ranging up to
17 years old, allegedly told police they were fed just one meal a day, usually
of rice or oatmeal.
end snip
So, kinda like when the police arrest people, sometimes they are arresting criminals, sometimes they are arresting innocent people, and sometimes they just like flexing their muscles.
i.e. each case stands or falls on its own merit.
Now, I will say this: The family I know is vry serious about their food but there is something interesting: The whole family never eats the same meal because of a myriad of food alergies. And the dad claims to be alergic to GMO corn.
After we played a gig, we were given free tickets to eat at a restaurant and it was almost impossible to find anything on the menu that ANY of them could eat. What a lifestyle.
IOW, I am torn on this issue. For such healthy people, they sure are a sickly bunch, but I’m also about freedom and the fact is that it is no less immoral to let a child grow up in the black ghetto than to let children be raised by these parents. In fact, personally, I think the ghetto (and the way they are being raised in it) is a greater risk to their physical and mental health than these “mountain families”.
i.e. rescuing these kids is racist against the black inner-city yutes.
No question that human judgement is involved. There is no way that a specific rule can be written for every situation which might arise. Anytime human judgement is involved, errors will be made. I can accept good faith errors even by the CPS as long as the errors are good faith errors. Law enforcement and related activities are never going to be perfect as long as they are performed by human beings.
As a general principle, I don't have an issue with the CPS and other protective agencies erring on the side of being overly-protective under it can assess the situation better.
I had a friend who was accused of child abuse. He and his wife said they has a pretty tense, half-hour discussion with the CPS until the CPS became convinced that the accusations were baseless. The child who said to be victimized was not taken and no further actions came of the situation. When I asked my friend about the situation, he was surprising non-bitter about the whole situation saying that the CPS was just doing their job. It can be hard to make good assessments when people are motivated to misrepresent.
complete independence from birth??? I dont .....think so
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