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Vanity: What is the politics behind the failure of the Pacific Free Trade Agreement?
Free Republic ^ | May 13, 2015 | Piranha

Posted on 05/13/2015 8:08:13 AM PDT by Piranha

What is the political back-story to the Pacific Free Trade Agreement? I was not following this story, and I see that it is tearing Congressional Democrats away from Obama.

Specifically: 1. Why is the Pacific Free Trade Agreement such a high priority for Obama's Second Term? 2. Why did so many Democrats oppose Obama on this bill? 3. Why did so many Republicans support Obama on this bill?


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Editorial; Government; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: democratrevolt; freetrade; obama; republicansupport
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To: betty boop

Music is what “feelings” sound like...


41 posted on 05/13/2015 4:33:33 PM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited (specifically) to include some fully orbed hyperbole..)
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To: betty boop
That strikes me as a singularly one-dimensional view of an inordinately complex problem.

The "complexity" is all inside your head darlin...you want to counter Chinese "aggression" stop giving them easy access to our markets and technology.

you have told me nothing about the facts on the ground that persuaded you to reduce this multi-faceted problem to purely one-dimensional economic terms.

Good grief...its not like the United States doesn't have a track record in this regard. Does NAFTA ring any bells? How's that working out?

Plus your "conclusion" apparently leaves America in a toothless, supine position WRT to rest of the world. Which since WWII, has depended on America as the moral center of world order, by virtue of its tremendous cultural power, and the economic and military power that flows from that.

You'll need a ten foot spreader for that amount of horse manure hon...there's a cheap 'Made in China' one on sale over at the Walmart. Ask the minimum wage floor stocker which one is the best...that is if he can speak English.

I gather America is no longer allowed to be America in your book.

On the contrary, the United States became a world class power precisely because it protected its industries...go figure.

42 posted on 05/13/2015 5:17:02 PM PDT by mac_truck (Aide toi et dieu t aidera)
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To: mac_truck
One cannot forever "protect" national industries in a thoroughly globalized economic system, one in particular spectacularly changed by technological innovation. One can only protect national interests in an ever-changing environment.

I do not think on the basis of evidence from you (so far) that you see the problem in such terms.

43 posted on 05/13/2015 5:46:24 PM PDT by betty boop (Science deserves all the love we can give it, but that love should not be blind. — NR>)
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To: betty boop

It is a good hymn. I’m sure your solo version was quite well done. I had an old buddy who like choral versions. The most stirring for me was that at the 9/11 Memorial Service. You probably remember it.

Go here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcYOHNWZ3jQ


44 posted on 05/13/2015 5:53:13 PM PDT by xzins (Donate to the Freep-a-Thon or lose your ONLY voice. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Piranha

Republicans support free trade, most democrats oppose it cause their union masters tell them to. This is not a secret, I’m surprised so many people here seem to not be aware of this.


45 posted on 05/14/2015 12:32:55 AM PDT by Impy (They pull a knife, you pull a gun. That's the CHICAGO WAY, and that's how you beat the rats!)
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To: betty boop

What a sad reception for such a beautiful hymn. The same hymn with a God-loving, patriotic audience would have them standing in joy.


46 posted on 05/14/2015 8:58:30 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: zeestephen
..."Why would Obama suddenly want an Asian free trade agreement?”......

This....Putin's been on the move with Asia ever since the Ukraine ordeal began...and before...he simply upped his steps....soon after Obama sent Michele to China as a "place holder".....meanwhile Putin sealed the deals. Now Obama wants his turn.....


47 posted on 05/14/2015 9:19:22 PM PDT by caww
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To: Impy

It’s not just the free trade in this agreement.....it’s all the other “stuff” included people are opposing.


48 posted on 05/14/2015 9:21:24 PM PDT by caww
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To: caww; AuH2ORepublican; 1rudeboy

If you are talking about immigration, this has nothing to do with it. So say the CONSERVATIVES that support it.

Tom McClintock

http://theminorityreportblog.com/2015/05/14/trade-means-freedom-and-prosperity/

Ted Cruz also supports it and doesn’t believe it can be used by Obama to let illegals in.

Everyone here seems to be reading/listening to nothing but protectionist propaganda that’s fear-mongering about illegal immigration in a cynical attempt to kill the legislation because they oppose free trade. Aside from a small number of these misguided ‘conservatives’, only labor democrats are opposed.


49 posted on 05/15/2015 5:09:33 AM PDT by Impy (They pull a knife, you pull a gun. That's the CHICAGO WAY, and that's how you beat the rats!)
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To: xzins; Alamo-Girl
Indeed, it is far more stirring sung ensemble, by the U. S.Army Choir! So very fitting....

I do remember this, dear brother in Christ. It was so very beautiful.

50 posted on 05/15/2015 3:19:37 PM PDT by betty boop (Science deserves all the love we can give it, but that love should not be blind. — NR>)
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To: Alamo-Girl; xzins
The objection, dearest sister in Christ, was that I had sung a "religious song" at a "secular event."

Oh, how things have changed since I was in High School! In various years, I sang both the Schubert and the Bach-Gounod Ave Maria, and the sublime Gesu Bambino, by Pietro Alessandro Yon — at the annual Christmas Assembly. [This in a Massachusetts public high school. Those days are gone forever.]

I was in very good voice then. Now, I don't sing at all, except when I'm doing the dishes!

51 posted on 05/15/2015 4:21:54 PM PDT by betty boop (Science deserves all the love we can give it, but that love should not be blind. — NR>)
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To: betty boop; xzins
Shame on them and on the justices who removed the Name of God from publicly funded schools. Their decision effectively established atheism as the religion of the land:

Mary had a little lamb,
His fleece was as white as snow.
And everywhere that Mary went,
The Lamb was sure to go.

He followed her to school each day,
‘Twasn’t even in the rule.
He made the children laugh and play,
To have a Lamb at school.

And then the rules all changed one day,
Illegal it became;
To bring the Lamb of God to school,
Or even speak His Name.

Every day got worse and worse,
And days turned into years.
Instead of hearing children laugh,
We heard gunshots and tears.

What must we do to stop the crime,
That’s in our schools today?
Let’s let the Lamb come back to school,
And teach our kids to pray!


52 posted on 05/16/2015 9:03:24 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl; metmom; marron; hosepipe; YHAOS; xzins; TXnMA
Shame on them and on the justices who removed the Name of God from publicly funded schools. Their decision effectively established atheism as the religion of the land

The only cure for this is: universal school vouchers. "Common Core" is a terrible idea. It should be rejected; and Jimmy Carter's Department of Education should be summarily abolished.

Educational decision making should be made by parents, not educrats.

Thanks for the telling version of "Mary had a little lamb," dearest sister in Christ — oh, so very true!

53 posted on 05/18/2015 6:52:27 AM PDT by betty boop (Science deserves all the love we can give it, but that love should not be blind. — NR>)
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To: betty boop; Alamo-Girl; metmom; marron; hosepipe; YHAOS; xzins; TXnMA

My wife is a teacher from a family of teacher, and half of our kids are teachers. My son and d-I-l use the parochial school and the unfairness of the property tax is mind boggling. They’ll probably move this year specifically because of the property tax. Whatever portion of the property tax that goes to education can be determined. There should be some kind of credit of at least a portion of that if a family is not using that service. The voucher plan is a perfect way to do it.

I understand that there are childless and elderly households and empty nesters who are paying that tax also without any direct benefit. But, just because property tax is such an unfair method of taxation doesn’t mean that vouchers are unfair to others. There actually is something wrong with property owners being charged a tax that rent/lease households don’t pay.


54 posted on 05/18/2015 7:02:09 AM PDT by xzins (Donate to the Freep-a-Thon or lose your ONLY voice. https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: betty boop; Alamo-Girl; metmom; marron; hosepipe; xzins; TXnMA
The only cure for this is: universal school vouchers. “Common Core” is a terrible idea.

Pardon the departure from the conventional view Boop, but although universal school vouchers may be an improvement over the existing system, vouchers have nothing to do with a “cure” for anything. The Feds remain in control of Education so long as they retain authority.

In a truly free nation, the Federal Regime has no role in Education any more than it has in Religion (and for very much the same reasons).

It may be that vouchers are a way to wrest control of Education from the Feds, but any other purpose simply allows control to remain in the same hands.

55 posted on 05/18/2015 11:12:35 AM PDT by YHAOS
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To: betty boop
The only cure for this is: universal school vouchers. "Common Core" is a terrible idea. It should be rejected; and Jimmy Carter's Department of Education should be summarily abolished.

I very strongly agree, dearest sister in Christ!

And thank you for the encouragement on the poem that has been floating around the web. In my haste to post it and get on with other things, I failed to mention how impressed I am that you had a voice to tackle those songs and still do for the ones you mentioned earlier! You are blessed!

56 posted on 05/18/2015 9:31:12 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: YHAOS; Alamo-Girl; metmom; marron; hosepipe; xzins; TXnMA
... although universal school vouchers may be an improvement over the existing system, vouchers have nothing to do with a “cure” for anything. The Feds remain in control of Education so long as they retain authority.

The problem is, the Feds have no authority under the Constitution to be involved in educational matters in the first place — these are matters that fall under the purview of the several states, as Tenth and Ninth Amendment matters. You are right to note that "the Federal Regime has no role in Education any more than it has in Religion."

Unfortunately, Jimmy Carter's Department of Education got established anyway. There should have been massive resistance to that proposal at the time, on constitutional grounds. Alas, that did not happen; and so now, the educrats are simply baked into the cake; and they bribe us into compliance with whatever edicts they come up with by threatening to withhold federal funds from the public schools of any state that does not fall into line. Talk about tyranny! Talk about monopoly!

I do believe that universal school vouchers can help to wrest control of education away from the Feds, by putting competition back into the education marketplace. Vouchers ideally would apply to any school whatsoever — public, private, parochial; charter schools, home schooling, on-line learning, etc. Parents have the sole discretion as to what schools their children will attend. And they will seek the absolutely best school they can find, one that is consistent with family values and the specific needs of their kids.

Educational funding goes directly per-capita to the individual child, not to school boards or state educational authorities.

In this competition, the public schools as they are presently constituted may find they lose their formerly captive students to better educational opportunities. Thus, the public schools have an incentive to improve the quality of education they provide.

Just some thoughts, my dear brother in Christ.

57 posted on 05/22/2015 10:15:27 AM PDT by betty boop (Science deserves all the love we can give it, but that love should not be blind. — NR>)
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To: betty boop; Alamo-Girl; metmom; marron; hosepipe; xzins; TXnMA
The problem is, the Feds have no authority under the Constitution to be involved in educational matters in the first place

Yup . . . That’s the problem.

58 posted on 05/22/2015 12:08:18 PM PDT by YHAOS
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To: betty boop

I believe your solution is the best for everyone, dearest sister in Christ!


59 posted on 05/22/2015 9:18:15 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Oatka; spokeshave

It opens the doors to a new flood of illegal immigrants...the Chamber of Commerce and the GOPe support this.

It is also rumored that it includes UN style Gun and ammunition control.

As well as hiding the source of product - no country ID on the label.


Great. What could go wrong? Thanks GOPe!


60 posted on 05/22/2015 9:25:20 PM PDT by Jane Long ("And when thou saidst, Seek ye my face; my heart said unto thee, Thy face, LORD, will I seek")
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