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To: Samogon

Spoken like someone who has no real understanding of the nature of hunting - in Africa or anywhere else. Although I suspect you’re already in the “I’ve made up my mind, don’t confuse me with facts” camp, I’ll take a shot...

While there are undoubtedly a few miscreants around that derive pleasure from what you refer to as sport hunting, the vast majority of sport hunters do not derive pleasure or “fun” from killing anything. Those of us who hunt honorably and in accordance with the law would be a lot tougher on poachers than most state laws permit today.

Hunters from the United States, Europe and elsewhere pay a great deal of money to hunt in Africa. To hunt the “Big Five” (elephants, lions, cape buffalo, leopards and rhinos - where legal), hunters pay enormous sums of money and, in many cases, are only able to bring back a small portion of the game they kill. The fees that they pay the government and PHs (professional hunters) pay for game wardens that enforce game laws, wildlife management, trackers, cooks, gun bearers and other local employees. Furthermore, much of the meat from those animals feeds local populations that, in many cases, are badly undernourished. Other animal parts are used to make crafts that natives sell in markets throughout Africa.

Kenya is a perfect example of the abject stupidity of hunting bans. Kenya’s hunting ban has been in effect since 1977. At that time, Kenya’s elephant population was estimated at 167,000 to 250,000 animals. Since then, in the absence of any LEGAL hunting, Kenya’s elephant population has been in freefall and is estimated at less than 20,000, due primarily to unrestricted poaching and sale of ivory and other elephant parts. Generally poor countries do not place wildlife management at the top of their priorities and the loss of revenue from legal sport hunting led to the loss of game wardens and a violent increase in poaching.

Populations of other animals have seen a similar decline. While the ban on hunting was applauded by the anti-hunting crowd, many of us in the hunting community refer to situations like Kenya’s as “Loving animals to extinction”.


43 posted on 07/29/2015 1:50:10 PM PDT by ManHunter (You can run, but you'll only die tired... Army snipers: Reach out and touch someone)
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To: ManHunter

Econ 101. The more you have of anything, the less value is attached to same.

That goes for people, water, air, and lions.

No, it’s not fair, or Christian... but it’s the reality.

Combine econ 101 with burgeoning populations in places where there is rhino horn... and the sympathies will not be with the Unicef posters.

Combine econ 101 with Hamilton’s Rule - and you have the makings of a worldwide race war over diminishing resources and the relative value of races and ethnicities of peoples.

Hamilton’s Rule - I am hardwired for 10,000 years to care for and about those who look and act like me. Out of necessity!

A hundred years of multi cultural pap hasn’t changed our hard wiring... but our politics. Don’t ask people on a public poll what is more important to them - African livelihood, or Lions, Giraffes, Gazelles. They will lie.

Hell, I would wager a months pay that even lowly coyote will muster more sympathy than Kikuyu or Masai.

I’ve been there. So have Dr.s without Borders... ask them if penicillin was put to good use on that continent.

this is a conversation that makes people squirm. But it has to be had. If only of the privacy of our homes. And it’s going to get much much worse. fingers in our ears - and complaints to the mods that I’m tiptoeing into quicksand only puts off the discussion.


49 posted on 07/29/2015 2:08:01 PM PDT by wenn
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To: ManHunter

Your label is wrong: I am a hunter myself, so I do understand a thing or two.
You are saying “the vast majority of sport hunters do not derive pleasure or “fun” from killing anything.” I agree.
Than “Hunters from the United States, Europe and elsewhere pay a great deal of money to hunt in Africa. To hunt the “Big Five”...” That is where we diverge. Hunting the Big Five has no utility except trophies and bragging rights - my definition of “killing for fun”. The revenue from such hunts is not an excuse for poorly managed economy of the hosts.


65 posted on 07/30/2015 5:02:19 AM PDT by Samogon (Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something. - Plato)
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