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To: DoughtyOne
Your questions concerning whether I support Ted Cruz on the Iran deal and on the trade bill are quite fair. I have anticipated them and I have answered them in this reply

The man is not perfect, he was wrong on trade and wrong on the Iran deal and I have already noted that I think he is wrong on H1B. But he has not been wrong nearly so much as has Trump.

We all know that no politician is perfect, we try to come up with the least imperfect man and we leave it to Democrats to swoon over their latest Messiah. We conservatives like to think that we look at the core.

Cruz has not slept with the enemy, funded the enemy, embraced the enemy, voted for the enemy or declared himself a member of the enemy party as has Trump. At his core, Trump gives us no reason to believe that he is conservative. At his core, Cruz is far more conservative.

The argument on behalf of Trump is boiling down to: 1) he is electable and Cruz is not 2) Trump is right on immigration and Cruz is not.

1) Electability has yet to be determined; 2) immigration: I've already given the edge to Trump, but only an edge as set forth in my previous reply. There is no basis to believe that Trump will enforce immigration law and Cruz will not. There is every reason to believe that, even with the publication of his immigration paper, Trump's commitment against amnesty is not clear. He will explicitly give amnesty to "terrific" illegal immigrants that he has readmitted. What the hell does that mean?


347 posted on 09/03/2015 1:06:06 AM PDT by nathanbedford ("Attack, repeat, attack!" Bull Halsey)
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To: nathanbedford

You’re generalizing a bit when you talk about electability.

Trump has shown an important feature in that regard. He is getting the politically unwashed to care again.

By raising the personal caring rate in America, he is doing more good than Cruz alone could.

This may yet end up being a tag team, even as a Trump led ticket.


349 posted on 09/03/2015 1:09:23 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: nathanbedford
Good post, General.

I am not nearly as concerned about the conservative soundbites that come out of a candidate's mouth today as I am with whether the candidate demonstrates conservative principles in his personal and professional life over time.

On that score, Trump misses out. By orders of magnitude.

373 posted on 09/03/2015 7:06:15 AM PDT by Eric Pode of Croydon (Will Trump make the trains run on time??)
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To: nathanbedford
Your questions concerning whether I support Ted Cruz on the Iran deal and on the trade bill are quite fair. I have anticipated them and I have answered them in this reply

The man is not perfect, he was wrong on trade and wrong on the Iran deal and I have already noted that I think he is wrong on H1B. But he has not been wrong nearly so much as has Trump.

I appreciate the clarity on those issues.  You provided a short to the point declaration that those stances were wrong, and again I appreciate that.  There is none the less a problem for me with regard to the declarations.

Just admitting he was wrong doesn't exactly cover it on at least one of these things.  He voted to make it easier for Obama to run cover for Iran developing nuclear weapons.  This means that in five to ten years we will be facing a terrorist training and supporting nation with nuclear weapons.  That nation's leaders have a favorite saying.  It's, "DEATH TO AMERICA!"  That nation is known to supply arms and funding to terrorist groups.  One of them is Hezbollah.  Hezbollah is in Southern Lebanon.  What stops Iran from slipping a nuclear device into it's supply truck for Hezbollah?

This wasn't simply an oops moment.  This was a catestrophic world class idiotic stupid as can be John Kerry or Barack Obama level screw up.

Try as I might, I can't think of one thing Trump has done that comes anywhere near 5% as dangerous as this.  Can you honestly?

If this doesn't strip away Cruz's claim to be a knowledgeable smart guy Conservative, I'm not sure what could.

NUCLEAR weapons in the hands of Iran.  Cruz couldn't see a problem with that?  He couldn't find it in him to oppose that with every fiber of his being?


We all know that no politician is perfect, we try to come up with the least imperfect man and we leave it to Democrats to swoon over their latest Messiah. We conservatives like to think that we look at the core.

Okay.  I agree with that.  In light of what I just pointed out to you, how is Cruz's core looking right about now?

If Cruz couldn't grasp the importance of this issue, why am I to believe he would be better than Trump to recognize the appropriate measures to take on other actions?  As pointed out, he couldn't on H1-B.  As pointed out, he couldn't on TPP.

Cruz is supposed to be a Christian.  He is supposed to be a supporter of Israel.  He is supposed to want to protect Western civilization.  Iran has missiles that can reach Europe and Israel.


Cruz has not slept with the enemy, funded the enemy, embraced the enemy, voted for the enemy or declared himself a member of the enemy party as has Trump.

Whoa... wait just a minute there.  Do you want a do-over for that one?  Voting to make it next to impossible to prevent Iran for getting nukes isn't sleeping with, embracing, or voting for the enemy?

Please, tell me what would be more supportive of an enemy than assuring they will attain nuclear weapons in a very short period of time.

Further, what Conservative in their right mind would cast a vote that would also ensure the release of $150 billion dollars of impounded "terrorist state" funds?

If there were ever a bill that would destroy a guy's claim to be a solid guy, more than this one, I can't think what it would be.  


At his core, Trump gives us no reason to believe that he is conservative. At his core, Cruz is far more conservative.

I understand where you are coming from.  I honestly do.  I can no longer agree.  Any guy whose core can't provide for him a reason not to do what Cruz did with regard to the Iran Nuclear agreement, is a guy whose core I'm very suspect of.

Something is going on here.  This sets off warning bells off all over the place.


The argument on behalf of Trump is boiling down to: 1) he is electable and Cruz is not 2) Trump is right on immigration and Cruz is not.

Okay, but that's only if you believe Trump.  I'm at a loss why you believe him on this, but don't believe him on anything else.  You believe he is a Conservative on immigration, but he has to be lying bastard on everything else.

Trump is either a dirty rotten lying bastard or he isn't.  So either you trust him or you don't.


1) Electability has yet to be determined

Sure.  And it was to be predetermined in all the general election years since Reagan.  Did you see any problems in the primary processes of those years?  Perhaps you didn't during those years, but looking back, we know darn well there are lessons to be learned.  Hindsight may not be 20/20, but it should be better than 100/100.  Why is it that we as a group can't admit to ourselves that we can't get a Conservative nominated?  I raise this issue and suddenly smiles dissapear.  Crying stops.  Blank looks rule the day.  Suddenly Conservatism becomes a body of zombies with arms outstretched lurching soon to follow.  What is going on with us as a group?  Why am I having to remind folks that we have only elected one Republican since Reagan, and that was the compassionate guy who was such a Leftist he couldn't differentiate himself with Al Gore or John Kerry for the electorate.  We have spent sixteen years with Bill Clinton and Barack Obama out of the last 24.  The dufus on our watch handed off a nation teetering on the edge.  And now I'm having to remind folks of this?

Yes Trump with all his blemishes is still a guy that can stand up and differentiate himself from the likes of Al Gore, John Kerry, and Barack Obama.  And he didn't vote to allow Iran to have nuclear weapons, or cash to fund terrorist operations.  


2) immigration: I've already given the edge to Trump, but only an edge as set forth in my previous reply. There is no basis to believe that Trump will enforce immigration law and Cruz will not.

Okay, then you don't mean it when you say Trump has a slight edge.  You can't trust him.

You can trust a guy who votes for legislation that will make it impossible to deny Iraq nuclear weapons, and will free up $150 billion dollars to support terrorism globally.

If you're able to explain this away, then why can't we explain away Kerry and Obama's actions?  Hey, they're all good people.  This was just a small misunderstanding on these folk's part.  


There is every reason to believe that, even with the publication of his immigration paper, Trump's commitment against amnesty is not clear. He will explicitly give amnesty to "terrific" illegal immigrants that he has readmitted. What the hell does that mean?

It means that they will be vetted.  It means that the felons will be refused entry.  It means they have gone through a legal immigration process.  I would hope it would mean they could come in only in numbers that equalled our immigration quota for Mexico (or what every nation in addition to Mexico).  I doubt that will be true.  That does bother me.  I realize the danger of chain immigration.  It can swamp our nation with massive numbers of foreign nationals.  I mean it, MASSIVE.

In our mind's eye, this is what we requested.  We requested these people go back to their nation of origin and get in line.  I'm not sure they'll have to get in line, but at least they are going back.  They will be vetted.  They will go through the immigration process.

If this isn't want we wanted, why did we ask for it?  If it is what we wanted, why shouldn't we acknowledge it, own up to it, and thank the guy that listened?

The guy is telling us he'll do what we asked of a person in his position, and we're still not happy.  What is wrong with us?  If we get what we want, shouldn't we be happy?

Scoul after scoul after scoul...

There is no joy in Mudville.  There's no joy in Conservatism either.  When a guy goes out there and hawks our postions, we try to destroy him.

Why should anyone listen to us and adopt our policies?

Anyone thinking of running as a Conservative, take notice.  Even Conservatives will seek to destroy you.  Don't bother.



393 posted on 09/03/2015 9:35:36 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (It's beginning to look like "Morning in America" again. Comment on YouTube under Trump Free Ride.)
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