Posted on 11/04/2015 9:42:30 AM PST by SeekAndFind
A recent, widely publicized incident in which a policeman was called to a school classroom to deal with a disruptive student has provoked all sorts of comments on whether the policeman used "excessive force."
What has received far less attention, though it is a far larger question, with more sweeping implications, is the role of disruptive students in schools.
Critics of charter schools have often pointed to those schools' ability to expel uncooperative and disruptive students, far more readily than regular public schools can, as a reason for some charter schools' far better educational outcomes, as shown on many tests.
The message of these critics is that it is "unfair" to compare regular public schools' results with those of charter schools serving the same neighborhoods -- and often in the same buildings. This criticism ignores the fact that schools do not exist to provide jobs for teachers or "fairness" to institutions, but to provide education for students.
"Fairness" is for human beings, not for institutions. Institutions that are not serving the needs of people should either be changed or phased out and replaced, when they persistently fail.
Despite the painfully bad educational outcomes in many public schools in ghettos across the country, there are also cases where charter schools in the very same ghettos turn out students whose test scores are not only far higher than those in other ghetto schools, but sometimes are comparable to the test scores in schools in upscale suburban communities, where children come from intact families with highly educated parents.
Charter schools with such achievements should be celebrated and imitated, not attacked by critics because of their "unfair" exemptions from some of the counterproductive rules of the education establishment. Maybe such rules should be changed for all.
If the critics are right, and getting rid of the influence of uncooperative or disruptive students contributes to better educational results, then the answer is not to prevent charter schools from expelling such students, but to allow other public schools to remove such students, when other students can benefit from getting a better education without them around.
This is especially important in low-income minority schools, where education is for many their only chance for a better life.
Back in the supposedly bad old days, before so many people became so politically correct, there were schools and other institutions that were basically dumping grounds for students who endangered the education -- and often even the safety -- of other children.
Yet a front-page story in the New York Times last week dealt with how Success Academy, a high-performing charter school network in New York City's low-income and minority neighborhoods, has been accused of "weeding out weak or difficult students."
The Times' own story opens with an account of a child who was "not following directions," who "threw tantrums," was screaming, threw pencils and refused to go to another classroom for a timeout. Yet the headline declared that charter schools "Single Out Difficult Students."
"Singled out" usually means treating someone differently from the way others are treated for doing the same things. Are convicted criminals "singled out" when they are sent to jail?
The principal of a Success Academy school in Harlem was accused of telling teachers "not to automatically send annual re-enrollment forms home to certain students, because the school did not want those students to come back."
A mother in Brooklyn complained about her son's being suspended repeatedly, and her being called repeatedly to come to school to pick him up early. She admitted that he was "hitting, kicking, biting and spitting at other children and adults."
After he was transferred to another public school, "he was very happy and had not been suspended once." How happy others were to have him in their midst was not reported.
It would be wonderful if we could develop ways to educate all students, despite whatever kinds of attitudes and behavior they had. But how many generations of other youngsters are we prepared to sacrifice to this hope that has never yet been fulfilled?
They should be immediately placed in a school that is more like a jail, where they can piss-off security guards that will enjoy taking care of their nasty little complaints for them.
This would have an additional effect of discouraging others from getting themselves sent there.
Public schools stopped expelling disruptive students when they decided that the Federal matching dollars would be granted based on daily attendance.
Eliminating compulsory education laws would probably do more to fix many of the problems in this country than anything else.
“Do unruly students have a right to stay in their schools?”
NO! Why should all students be subjected to one unruly kid!
And the parent/parents are more than likely to be the problem. What you are taught at home usually makes it’s way to school too.
So many ‘parents’ are more willing to call an attorney to ‘protect’ their kid from the school discipline before they would attend a parent/teacher conference to find out why they were disciplined!
Yes, they have a right. In the dungeons beneath the school proper. I suggest schools get to working on their dungeons right away!
When I was a kid, they used to scare us with “reform school.” Reform school was where you went if you were bad.
Disruptive students should be removed and sent to special reform schools. We should also bring back vocational schools and internships. Not everybody is cut out to stay in school until age 17, and certainly not everybody is college material, like we pretend.
Some kids should be kicked out of school and dumped on their parents. If parents knew they’d lose their free baby-sitting service and be stuck with their brats at home all day, maybe they’d start disciplining them. If a kid straightens himself out later, he can always go to adult school and earn his GED.
No. The degenerates should not be allowed to ruin the educational experience of all the other kids.
Yes! People practically faint with shock whenever that is suggested, but it's what needs to happen.
A mother in Brooklyn complained about her son's being suspended repeatedly, and her being called repeatedly to come to school to pick him up early. She admitted that he was "hitting, kicking, biting and spitting at other children and adults."
After he was transferred to another public school, "he was very happy and had not been suspended once." How happy others were to have him in their midst was not reported.
Once again I'm a Sowell groupie - as I stand in awe of this man's amazing insight into the human condition and all the incentives that prop up good and evil...
Education should be completely privatized.
“Unruly” students have a right to go to a Reform School...and, possibly, have their asses kicked.
It’s not just the money the school receives. We can thank “W” for “No Child Left Behind”. Students who are special ed. are almost impossible to get rid of. That is federal law intruding into local education. If their behavior is a “manifestation”
of their disability we can do almost nothing. They also have “student advocates” who want to sue the school for any attempt to get them under control. The school boards allow themselves to be intimidated and usually do not stand up to these legal bullies.
I teach at an alternative school and it is no picnic. We try to kick out the most disruptive so we can try to work with the rest. Many we do help but it’s a challenge with the ones we can’t get rid of.
We used to have alternative schools.
Wrong question
Do students who want to be there and want to learn have a right have a safe and effective learning environment?
YES
And his ability to report on it, using crystal clear language.
I remember an unruly student who got slapped by the woman teacher so hard he had to walk sideways for a week.
Another teen was tormenting a younger kid on the bus and the driver stopped and THREW (And I do mean threw)the teen off an made him walk several miles home.
But then that was in the early 1950s and 1960s when discipline was rigorously enforced.
My kids were enrolled in a Baptist church school, to off set part of their tuition, I drove a church/school bus. The Pastor/principal was showing me my bus. Inside right by the driver’s seat and in plain view of every kid getting on the bus, was a paddle. The principal told me that if I needed to use it, find a safe place to pull over and use it.
I never had to use it. Those were well behaved kids.
Yes, that too...
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