Posted on 02/10/2016 7:43:03 PM PST by Nachum
Just so the facts are straight the 4 protesters are not on the refuge. They are camped out on the outskirts of the refuge. They are standing outside huddled around a gas heater surrounded by FBI and 5 MRAPs. The whole thing is ludicrous.
According to the post just below this one, Trump agrees that the gov’t needs to kick these people off gov’t land.
Not just yet, but getting closer..
An 0bamanation; testing for the summer of 2016 IMHO
I don't know. What's the longest possible jail term for "impeding federal officers"?
The federales are obviously spoiling for a massacre. That is obviously wrong and this situation has to be resolved by courts and not by guns public or private.
The four "protestors" who are occupying this Wildlife center are choosing the wrong hill to die on. What on Earth does their occupation of the building do to achieve their purposes? Publicity? Suicide by FBI? Sympathy over their deaths? I don't see the point.
The "protestors" are now saying they will leave when charges are dropped or when they are dead. I have a hard time mustering much respect for their actions or attitude. I do think that the government should be forced to cough up the land they have grabbed all over the West, that any deals with Putin or anyone over Uranium rights should be fully exposed, that the government should be forced to explain why there was double jeopardy leading to second convictions for arson or whatever against ranchers who resisted the government and with whom these "protestors" are in apparent sympathy. That story is getting out effectively if publicizing it was their goal.
Whatever their cause may be, it does not justify them being slaughtered for it. If Gerry Spence could get Randy Weaver off the charges against him after a federal marshal and Randy's ife and son were killed and could make the fedgov cough up a multimillion dollar settlement of Randy's legal claims, then there are still lawyers out there who can handle this situation.
Unfortunately, it is too late for Lavoy Finnicum who was killed. Why does it have to unnecessarily become too late for these folks? Live to fight in other ways on another day.
I’m surprised they weren’t all slaughtered weeks ago.
I guess Loretta Lynch Doesn’t have a friendly pet General like Janet Reno had in Weasley Clark
i believe the main thing that kept the campers from getting wiped out was the 70,000+ people listening on the live stream.
it’s kinda tough to kill 4 people standing in a field while 70,000+ people hear them asking for a peaceful solution... and the fbi deliberately avoiding any possible peaceful solution
Or treated these folks with the extreme generosity and willingness to ignore nefarious motives of our Somali, Syrian, Muslim “migrants”. But the gov is consistent: if those Migrants wanted to go on Federal land, they’d be treated exactly the same. Which makes me wonder why the property is defended to the death when ranchers have been peaceful, good stewards of land since before the States became part of the Union. The Spaniards ranched all over Calif. hundreds of years ago. What’s the real issue here?
Directly from the Bundy Ranch Facebook account;
“0:45 PST: Depiste rumors, we were just in contact with the final four on the ground and all is quiet. — Cliven’s arrest has been confirmed and we hope to know more soon. Keep praying, keep principled, stay vigilant.”
And on a happier note invading refugees forced on Americans in America welcomed with open arms. What’s wrong with this picture????
All four remaining occupiers have now been taken alive. Of the original 8, 7 were taken alive and the only one killed was the one who refused to stay in his truck and was reaching for a his gun.
The Feds move in on armed occupiers of a Fed facility ? What a surprise ?
Many people who have reviewed the videos with sharper eyes than mine, claim that Finecum was NOT reaching for his gun. Some say he was instinctively reaching for his first wound.
I want answers to or evidence of autopsy by a qualified coroner or medical examiner, transcripts of any interviews of those fired upon in the vehicle from which Finnecum fled only to be shot down by LEOs. Until such evidence is made public without reservations, I am reserving judgment and so should everyone else.
Giving known events of Waco, Oklahoma City, Ruby Ridge and what happened on the Oregon highway BEFORE, during and after Finnecum was shot, the government MUST objectively prove that the actions of its agents were justified. ALL lives matter. I have previously noted here that I do not believe that the Oregon Eight were at all justified or wise in seizing the Wildlife Center. OTOH, government LEOs have the responsibility to act as the grownups. The legal standard is "That force and ONLY that force NECESSARY to achieve a legitimate law enforcement purpose."
I reasonably suspect that the LEOs did not comply with that standard. I could be wrong. And so could you be wrong. Let's see the evidence and NOT rush to judgment. If the LEOs were acting in accordance with that standard, they deserve to be so recognized and exonerated. If not, they deserve to be indicted, prosecuted, defended, given due process of law, judged by a court or by a jury of their peers as they may prefer and, if convicted, punished accordingly. Is there a respectable reason to disagree?
When I wrote last night, the last four said that they would leave only if all charges were dropped or when they were dead. They agreed to surrender only after I went to sleep for the night. Now that they have surrendered, the matter is properly in the courts for decision. They also deserve due process of law as does Finnecum's estate if it chooses to take civil action.
I'm sure they all will be at some point.
Many people who have reviewed the videos with sharper eyes than mine, claim that Finecum was NOT reaching for his gun.
If he had his hands raised and then lowered them, that would be enough for LE to get nervous, especially since he was known to carry, and had boasted on video that he would never be taken alive.
Some say he was instinctively reaching for his first wound.
Was there a prior wound? I don't know; the family had a private autopsy performed, but haven't released the report.
Until such evidence is made public without reservations, I am reserving judgment and so should everyone else.
Agreed.
Giving known events of Waco, Oklahoma City, Ruby Ridge and what happened on the Oregon highway BEFORE, during and after Finnecum was shot, the government MUST objectively prove that the actions of its agents were justified. ALL lives matter.
I certainly agree in general. I would add only this: after Waco, the FBI was criticized (rightly) for laying a siege when they could have just arrested Koresh on the road when he was going into town. And that's exactly what the FBI did here.
I reasonably suspect that the LEOs did not comply with that standard.
Perhaps so, but they arrested all but one of the suspects without injury.
Is there a respectable reason to disagree?
Not a one.
When I wrote last night, the last four said that they would leave only if all charges were dropped or when they were dead. They agreed to surrender only after I went to sleep for the night.
Listening to the tapes, I think the FBI did a good job getting the four to surrender without using force.
Now that they have surrendered, the matter is properly in the courts for decision. They also deserve due process of law as does Finnecum's estate if it chooses to take civil action.
Again, I agree.
You are likely correct!
Max is six years, but there may be other charges coming.
Hard to reach for a gun when you are unarmed.
The FBI claims they recovered a gun from his pocket.
And even if you are unarmed, reaching for your pocket when armed cops are telling you to keep your hands up is generally not a good career move.
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