Posted on 02/24/2016 8:50:27 PM PST by Swordmaker
I did say so. Otherwise how could you have quoted me? Your smear is not clever.
I did not say I trusted the Feds or did not trust them. They are as corruptible as anyone else. Those means have been used to expose the corruption of officials, too.
Tell that to the Clintons in White Water, the Server controversy and the classified emails and the ones Hillary deleted, Eric Holder in Fast and Furious, and plenty of other cases.
The fact is this is NOT about a search warrant because Apple was not served with a search warrant because they are not holding any data on any iPhones owned or used by any terrorists. In fact, they were served with search warrants for data on the iCloud for one of those terrorists, and duly turned over what they had!
Haven't you been paying any attention at all? Apple WAS cooperating with the FBI on this. Apple DOESN'T HAVE THE MEANS to unlock the iPhone.
This is not just a basic "search warrant" that we are talking about here. This is the unique application of an 18th Century law called the "All Writs Act" which allows the court to do things in furtherance of pursuing the law. But in this case, it is requiring the CREATION of something that does not exist because Congress has specifically DECLINED to legislate it be done. The FBI found a "Magistrate judge" willing to issue a court order to Apple to do what Congress decided NOT to pass a law to require. This is blatant legislation from the bench! It is NOT Apple refusing to turn over something they already have, they don't have custody of these data.
They have, in fact, already turned over the back-up copies of the data that was on the iPhone of which they did have custody. They have been working with the FBI since early January to get data off the iPhone 5C in question by other means, unaware that the FBI, within 24 hours of getting custody of this iPhone, had the San Bernardino County IT Department CHANGE the AppleID assigned to this Device that COULD have allowed Apple to easily force an iCloud dump of the current data on it, so it could have handed everything over to the FBI. The FBI did not bother to tell Apple, the judge, or the public THEY SCREWED UP and basically destroyed the links of a way to get the encrypted data off the iPhone through their IGNORANCE!
In addition, there is nothing in the law that requires Apple to create something that will destroy the value of their main products, which is what this order requires. . . Ordering Apple to create a "Backdoor" means of unlocking the security and therefore encryption of every iPhone and iPad in the world, some 800,000,000 of them, which people are relying on to protect their data, credit/debit cards, identities, and privacy.
Apple has never particlularly sought "market share." Apple seeks the high end of the market that cares about intangible things like security. That is what their devices are bought for. It is why 3000 banks allow their credit/debit card data to be used on them with ApplePay and millions of stores accept them for payment. It is not because they can be easily "cracked" because there will be BACKDOOR out there because the FBI demanded one and got it.
Rest assured once it's been created, it will NOT stay secret or available ONLY to the FBI. That has NEVER happened. A "secret" Backdoor was created for Blackberry devices several years ago in a child pornography case to access 1000 kiddie porn pictures on a Blackberry phone. The JUDGE in the case ordered the release of the unlocking tool after the case was over on request from the media! He said it had to be, because it was in the public's interest to see how such cases can be discovered! Idiots abound. It would be no different in this case.
Idiot judge, bribe, theft, left in a computer that is found. It will be in the wild sooner rather than later. It will happen. As Tim Cook put it, the only way to be assured it won't happen is TO NEVER CREATE ONE IN THE FIRST PLACE!
Of course, Ghost, you don't have to let my facts get in the way of your biased opinion. You just go ahead and give up your hard one civil rights because of emotional reaction exactly as the Obama Department of Justice wants you to. You go right ahead and believe that that it's perfectly OK for the government to spy on us all wholesale, without our permission. You go ahead and keep making your unwarranted assumptions.
Everyone,
I have watched this story in the news for the past few days. No one on this forum supports terrorist scum, but this isn’t really about that. It is an excuse for the government to once again take away our freedoms little by little. They say it will only be used against terrorists, but let’s look at history.
Government: we need no-knock warrants to prevent drug dealers from flushing evidence. It will only be used against the bad guys. We will never use it against law abiding citizens
US citizens: Ok. Go after the bad guys.
Government: We need SWAT teams to go after big bad drug dealers. It will only be used against the bad guys. We will never use it against law abiding citizens.
US citizens: Ok get the bad guys.
Government: We need Asset Forfeiture to prevent the bad guys from using drug money to defend themselves. It will only be used in the War on Drugs. We will never seize the assets of law abiding citizens.
US citizens: Ok. By the way there have been a few news stories about innocent people getting killed during no-knock raids.
Government: That was an accident. Besides, now we need to monitor all the phone calls in the war on terror, but don’t worry, we will only use it against the bad guys.
US citizens: Well, if it helps fight the terrorists. I have a problem though. The IRS just seized my bank account. They said something about depositing under 10,000 dollars at my bank. I am not a drug dealer. Can I get my money back?
Government: Hahahah. Sorry, if you can prove it is not drug money you can have it back. Might take several years though.
US citizens: That sucks.
Government: Oh, we also need to have Apple retrieve the info from a terrorists phone. I mean technically we could have gotten it if we hadn’t botched the password recovery. But we need it, because terrorism.
US citizens: Wait, if you force Apple to break into the terrorists phone won’t they be able to also break into everyone else’s?
Government: Yes, bwahahah. But we promise it will only be used against the terrorists. Never against law abiding citizens.
US citizens (What will you decide? Will you once again trust the government to take away your rights and protections? This is scare tactics to get more power.)
Those who fail to,learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them.
What exactly was it that CHINA got from the Federal government last summer? Every US Government employees' data? Yup. They did. Another example of the security of our Federal Government at work. . . and we are supposed to trust them with a Backdoor to OUR security?
I understand that one happened because an auditor went on vacation and took his work computer with him, and HE kept his administrator passwords on a sticky note app on his computer desktop. . . Which got cloned while he was out to dinner and a show and left his work laptop in his Hotel Room in Shanghai, China. . . seems it got Shanghaied.
And they are supposed to get the keys to unlock 800,000,000 iPhones around the world and keep THAT secret and only use it when necessary? RIGHT! Sure. I'm sorry, I don't believe in the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny, or Santa Claus any more either.
That needs some fixing, Sloanrb. Let me do some judicious editing, OK?
Those who fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed.
There, that's better.
That’s not my understanding but I will check further.
My comment was drpping with sarcasm but I should have use the / sarc tag
No!...Apple wants to protect you!!!...Do you mind if I or the Govt. has access to ALL of your personal records without a warrant??...Are you familiar with the 4th Amendment?....it was one of those little checks and balances thingies the Dumb Founding Fathers thought up....I wonder why they found it so important????...You should wonder too...
Yeah...we ought to get rid of that silly protection too..../s
Seriously..do u understand the 4th Amendment and why it was important?
Im quite certain Apple would open that phone in a heartbeat with a simple warrant...
As to your silly Apple exec question....They'd be thrilled to respond to a warrant!!!... And just as an aside....If the Govt targets me for a full investigation with cause...Do you mind if they investigate YOU for any minor wrongdoing you may ever have committed?...Not only could they get Me but probably you too!....Talk about an efficient government!...Yeah...Thats the ticket...hope we get the same cell..we'll w have plenty to talk about...
You talking about Gulf of Tonkin Resolution? C. Turner Joy was with them.
Apple can unlock ONE phone.
Yup!...That's why we have WARRANTS via the 4th Amendment...You worry about a solved problem!
Yes, the Joy was there too, but no, I am not talking about the Gulf of Tonkin resolution. I am talking about the Gulf of Tonkin incident itself.
I was foolish enough to believe the government, about the incident, but now, I am skeptical of it. I wonder if much of it, or maybe even all of it was fabricated. I just don't know for sure. I was not on either ship.
M, something tells me, that talking, isn't one of the things you will be much interested in doing :-)
I’m not arguing against warrants. Add more layers of protection than we already have, if necessary. I’m just saying that Apple should be compelled to help in this instance.
I just read some blather article about how to compel them would be slavery. Well, we drafted people during times of war and have ordered private companies to do things to aid wartime. It is not unprecedented. Islamic terrorism is a huge threat, a war of sorts, and this is being over dramatized by some who are probably just scared their Apple stock my be affected.
Well this will put a dent in Apple’s earnings. /s
What? That there is no backdoor, or that Apple didn't let the Chinese in?
Both are true. Apple allowed the Chinese to check for "Security leaks" but that is NOT letting them "in" to iOS. They've got no more access than our government has. China specified that Chinese customers' data had to be kept inside the Chinese borders on Servers associated with the Chinese phone companies' carrier system. Apple agreed to this. However, Apple also insisted that the Chinese customers' data could be encrypted before it was uploaded. The Chinese government was concerned there were "backdoors" in Apple's software that allowed the NSA access. Apple agreed to allow a survey to assure them there were none.
In January last year Quartz reported that according to Chinese news agencies, Apple agreed to let the Chinese government perform 'security checks' to confirm that there were no 'backdoors' that might let the US government read Chinese citizens' data. The country had threatened Apple's access to the Chinese market. Source
Apple essentially showed them how their Encryption system worked. They showed the same as they have shown HERE how it worked to banks who were concerned that others could get in and steal credit/debit card data. There was no access to the code. It is similar to what I've been shown.
That survey convinced the Chinese there were NO BACKDOORS in Apple's iOS and they lifted a short block they put on the importation of iOS devices they had put in place.
There are now 15 iPhones the FBI has sent "All Writs Act" court orders citing THIS court order to Apple about. These all order Apple to unlock more phones. It is NOT just about "Apple can unlock ONE phone."
The DOJ says they have several thousand devices for Apple and other mobile phone makers they want unlocked as soon as it is feasible and they have the precedent in place to force all makers to do it. Congress refused to pass a law requiring it, but they'll be happy to let the COURTS legislate it using an MAGISTRATE judge, essentially a glorified CLERK, who doesn't even have to be a lawyer, write, or should we say ignorantly copy verbatim, what the FBI gave her to put, in her order.
It's the nose of the camel in the tent. Once the nose is in the tent, the CAMEL will soon push YOU out of your tent!
Apple does not have the capability at this time to unlock any iPhone of this model or later. The court order demands that Apple DEVELOP the means to unlock these iPhones, and all later models of iPhones that use this locking technique, and then GIVE that unlocking technique to the FBI. That's in the order in no uncertain terms. Verbatim from the court order:
". . . providing the FBI with a signed iPhone Software file, recovery bundle or other Software image File ("SIF") that can be loaded onto the SUBJECT DEVICE. The SIF will load and run from Random Access Memory ("RAM") and will not modify the i/os on the actual phone, the user data partition or system partition on the devices's flash memory. . . The SIF will be loaded via Device Firmware Upgrade ("DFU") mode, recovery mode or other applicable mode available to the FBI."
By the way, these explicit orders about HOW to do this, make it impossible to do what the Court ordered, because it can't possibly work as ordered. Plus, there is no such thing as i/os.
However, notice that it does order Apple to give the fruits of their creative labor TO the FBI and even specifies how it's to be delivered.
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