EU to tighten guns rules despite concern it will restrict hunters, collectors

EurActiv ^ | Jun 10, 2016 | (EurActiv.com with AFP)

[Olog-hai]

European Union governments should agree tighter gun control laws on Friday (10 June) in the wake of Islamist shooting attacks in France and Belgium, despite opposition from some states which say they will hurt only law-abiding enthusiasts.

The Czech Republic is among the loudest critics of rules that EU officials expect to secure comfortable majority backing when the 28 interior ministers meet in Luxembourg on Friday. It argues the measures will not prevent criminals acquiring weapons, but will penalize hunters and collectors.

Since the attack on Charlie Hebdo magazine in January 2015 by men armed with Kalashnikov assault rifles apparently bought in central Europe, France has pushed for a crackdown. It redoubled its efforts after the attacks in Paris on Nov. 13. …

[nathanbedford]

A few hours ago an article appeared concerning the impending Brixit vote potentially withdrawing Great Britain from the European Union. While I was writing the reply which appears immediately below, the thread was pulled because of problems with its provenance. I have added a few words at the bottom relevant to this thread.

At a time when it has become fashionable in America to denigrate both our founding fathers and the framers, it is refreshing to understand that they accomplished something that is extraordinary in human history. They built us a country based on a constitutional system which lasted for 80 years and survived after a devastating civil war to go on to become the most powerful country on earth and the envy of the world.

We must grant that the formation of the European Union was more of a process over time than the gift of gifted statesman such as blessed America in the summer of 1787. The challenges were different, for example they were attempting to build a political entity out of a polyglot list of nations while the framers enjoyed a monolingual advantage. The framers were working with states that had recently been colonies and so had not centuries of fixed sovereignty to defend contrary to the map which confronted those who formed the European Union. The framers were building a Constitution and a country which had survived the war against a common foe but the European Union had to build a union among nations which had been at war with each other several times within a century and many many times throughout history.

But our founding fathers turned to the Enlightenment for inspiration while the Europeans flirted with Karl Marx. With all its flaws, the American Declaration of Independence and the American Constitution have evolved into a social compact which is remarkably fair although it has been distorted and ignored in recent years. The European effort produced a top-down elitist organization too far removed from the people and too much committed to statism. The solution for the European Union is to turn toward a representative democracy and away from a top-down elite. Alas, they lack but one indispensable commodity: patriots.

As one who lives most of the year in Germany and has done so for some time, the potential breakup of the European Union would no doubt run adverse to my self-interest so I am conflicted about the prospect. On the one hand my conservative soul yearns for the kind of freedom that can only come in a genuine representative democracy adhering to a meaningful Constitution and on the other hand I enjoy residency rights etc. because of the European Union Treaty. So I want to see the union abolished yet I want to see it continue.

I would like to recount the feelings that have been expressed to me both by American ex-pats with whom I engage and by my German neighbors here in Bavaria. Generally, Bavarians and Germans are equally fascinated and appalled by American gun ownership. When I tell them I have a very good friend who has dozens of firearms and tens of thousands of rounds stored in his home in America, they are dumbfounded. They instinctively connect guns to crime and they are proud of their low murder rate but they do not consider the homogeneity of their culture which is fast disappearing. The European has been famously described as someone who considers his prerogatives according to the following test: if it is allowed he may do it. The American judges his rights according to this test: if it is not prohibited he may do it. The European looks to the government to protect them from his neighbor and the American hopes to enlist his neighbor to protect him from his government. A strange mindset to me for people who live with the legacy of fascism.

The European Union is based on the concept of the collective which we hear Hillary Clinton calling for in every speech and which was really the essence of her book, IT TAKES A VILLAGE. The American ideal, expressed in the Bill of Rights, is a society built on the atom, the individual. I believe it is from these fundamental divergences that the paths part concerning gun ownership. I have written long replies (no surprise there) concerning the evident paradox in conservatives' and liberals' views of the rights of gun ownership running contrary to the idea that liberals view man as essentially good but conservatives view man as essentially fallen. It is the conservative who trusts the fallen individual with the gun and the liberal who mistrusts the essentially good being with a gun.

[kingu]

When you have masses of people entering your ‘borders’, they can smuggle whatever they want. Add in the usual bribes, and like always, these laws will only serve to cow the general public and do exactly nothing to prevent any future terrorism - which is the intention - you need the excuse for the next crack down and further restrict guns.

[HiTech RedNeck]

Going for nuts. The one factor that could help Europeans physically fight back against a surge in “refugee” caused crime, will be further attenuated.

But in turn, where is America, which was once a witness of wisdom to the world? Down and dirty with all manner of profligacy.

[HiTech RedNeck]

Inasmuch as there are agendas, they are stirred up from evil supernatural regions. People alone could not gin up such wickedness.

[HiTech RedNeck]

It takes a villainous village

[fella]

Brexit, now!

[gigster]

The only example of a gun collector in the EU I’ve ever seen is the one I saw in the movie “Lock, Stock, and two Smoking barrels”.

[sheik yerbouty]

I mistyped. The word was remain. Globalists want to destroy any means of resistance to being able nslaved..

[Boomer One]

Look for the US to join and suddenly make millions of honest citizens felons for simply owning a gun. The only question is, with so many outstanding, who is going to collect them?

In thinking about the issue of confiscation, I note the parallels to slavery. I had a friend who collected antique Winchester rifles and just about any Colt pistol made prior to 1980. His collection was easily worth more than $100,000 dollars. Now imagine the government suddenly declares them illegal and attempts confiscation without compensation. A substantial portion of his net worth would suddenly disappear along with his ability to make future income from trades. To the non-gun owner this sounds like a good idea as he will be “protected” and has nothing to lose, so he goes along with it. Seems to me this is the same type of reasoning that led to one Civil War and has the potential for another, especially in view of America’s history and the demonstrated need for citizens to remain armed.

Taking this a step further, we now have a Congress that runs on its own agenda, a judicial system concerned with promoting social change instead of enforcing laws, and a Supreme Court that is anything but. Citizens fear the government instead of the reverse. Attempts at citizen disarmament in these trying times might be like lighting a fuse to a keg of gunpowder.

[Travis McGee]

Socialists are the same everywhere.

[SgtHooper]

European Union—what a joke!!

[Roccus]

The only question is, with so many outstanding, who is going to collect them?

LEOs and the military......and to think otherwise is the height of idiocy.

[Windflier]

I don’t disagree with you, but I was talking about governments disarming their citizens, not racism.

[Windflier]

There are about 100 million gun owners in this country, and roughly 300 million guns.

The combined numbers of law enforcement and military personnel in the country, is two to three million, tops.

If anyone thinks those odds favor the government, they’re fearing needlessly.

[BigpapaBo]

And some might do the despicable act of confiscation. The EU for sure, the US well.....
They will be noted, addresses found and hopefully disappear from existence.
There is a silent majority out there. The event in Nevada last year with the BLM getting their asses shown to the world kinda worked. Thank god it didn’t go hot. Now I hear whispers that those patriots who were there are being identified one by one. The Bundy crew comes to mind and I’m sure many others are under a microscope.

The powers that be got to realize, it will be bloody and they will be noted as well.
The crooked gun registration/ confiscation acts in NY and CT are not working as the lawmakers wanted. Will the lawmakers demand the leo and military act, knowing full well their capacity to steal oxygen from the rest of us will cease?
Do you think some our ex military Patriots will submit, I think a few will but most won’t. There are countless ex SF/infantry and military folks in the US that could resist. Not to mention the hunters and sportsman.
I’ll be in both profiles- USMC. Hunter. Sportsman. Patriot.
I will resist.
Mrs Bo agrees with this and fits a similar profile as myself.
Oldest son agrees with this and fits a similar profile as both of us.
Teaching our youngest two with the same qualities.
Id bet there are a few Freepers out there who fit a similar profile.

[Roccus]

If anyone thinks those odds favor the government, they’re fearing needlessly.

If numbers were all that mattered, you would be correct.

Now let us talk about the will, the fortitude, the character of the American people. How many of that 100 million will be willing to put the lives of their spouses, their children in jeopardy?

Those 100 million can't even stop the government from killing babies, from bringing in invading hoards or from allowing safe passage to other invading hoards. Those 100 million even allow the government to steal their resources to finance these actions.

Remember the quiet acquiescence in Boston a few years ago to armored vehicles coming down the streets while citizens were held in the sights of LEOs? Remember the quiet acquiescence in N.O.LA after a storm when LEOs came to collect citizens' arms? Once ONE citizen decides to fight back, such an horrific example will be made that others will quickly fall in line.

What is in my heart is not "needless fear," but rather an acceptance of reality.

[Roccus]

See my #36

[Windflier]

“How many of that 100 million will be willing to put the lives of their spouses, their children in jeopardy?”

No one can know the answer to that, until (and unless) we’re faced with that reality, but my gut tells me there would likely be a vanguard of at least ten percent, who would pquickly be followed by perhaps another 20 to 30 percent, who require leadership to find their courage.

Even if that one in ten turned out to be the full contingent of insurgent patriots, the odds would not favor the government.

Logic says that the American public would already be disarmed if it were possible to do. The fact that we’re not, says that the government has wargamed this scenario, and has come to the conclusion that they’d lose.

[BigpapaBo]

I agree with what you say about those that would let their “chains” of safety cower them.
I agree that killing unborn children should be outlawed and those that do should be tried for murder. We will never see the statistics on how many lives have been lost in the news
I agree that if the gun issue becomes hot i.e. Confiscation,there will be examples made in the court system. Possibly large firefights with small groups. The complicit media will amplify this. These would be locally dealt with but amplified to the world.
Now take that example and go national, the entire USA. Just have the politicians say “turn them in or you are gonna go to jail” and “shoot on sight any person in possession of a firearm” .
There will be nonstop coverage of the body count- on both sides
Up to a point...
The count will become a statistic, kinda like the communist takeover of Russia and Nazi sponsored Jewish extermination. They won’t televise that.
Then lots of people start disappearing or are taken out in a high profile manner. Local law enforcement are not trained in the Coins doctrine. Will they do a SWAT style lockdown of the entire country, state or city then go house to house? Will they line up at the door of every American home?
We will know by then who is doing this, they can’t hide. People will see it coming and I’m including the lawmakers and the confiscators. They will have to make a come to Jesus decision. Whether breathing O2 is better than lining up on a door for a tactical entry and hoping there isn’t a patriot waiting for them with a 50bmg or worse. How many are they willing to lose?Will they make everyone go to the stadium or “resettlement camp” ? I’m not going. Nor would millions of likeminded citizens of this country.
The media meanwhile would need to wear body armor 24/7.

We are all being boiled like frogs, key to that is not be a frog and nowhere near the heat.
All IMHO FRiend.

[Lazamataz]

I will be the one who will sacrifice his life for the greater good. It is nearly time to go to war.