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To: Boogieman
Seems to me that, since being a member of the Catholic Church is a work, your catechism indeed says that works are necessary for salvation.

Do you have to believe in Christ to be saved? By your crazy logic, believing in Christ is also a work. So you believe that works (believing in Christ) can save you.

I will spend as much time as necessary to help you understand the REAL teachings of Christ and the Church he established. We can do it here, but I'd hate to steal the thread.

But works are a part of the salvation plan of Christ. You may be confusing what the Church teaches with what the Bible teaches:
"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."Philippians 2:12

And here:"You see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." James 2:24

But you probably don't trust the Bible, because the Church gave us the Bible. Where did the table of contents of the Bible come from?

122 posted on 09/02/2016 11:57:15 AM PDT by FatherofFive (Islam is evil and must be eradicated)
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To: FatherofFive

“Do you have to believe in Christ to be saved? By your crazy logic, believing in Christ is also a work.”

No, that is not “my logic”, do not put words in my mouth. Belief is the work of the father:

“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.” John 6:44

“Of his own will he brought us forth by the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.” James 1:18

“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,” 1 Peter 1:3


“You may be confusing what the Church teaches with what the Bible teaches:”

If your church is the true representative of Christ on earth, there really shouldn’t be any conflict in the teachings, should there?

“But you probably don’t trust the Bible, because the Church gave us the Bible.”

God gave us the Bible, which is why we call it the Word of God, so noone may boast that it is their own work.


123 posted on 09/02/2016 12:14:05 PM PDT by Boogieman
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To: FatherofFive
And while you're at it, answer these questions:

1) Where did Jesus give instructions that the Christian faith should be based exclusively on a book?

2) Where did Jesus tell His apostles to write anything down and compile it into an authoritative book?

3) Where in the New Testament do the apostles tell future generations that the Christian faith will be based solely on a book?

4) Where in the Bible do we find an inspired and infallible list of books that should belong in the Bible?

128 posted on 09/02/2016 12:50:00 PM PDT by FatherofFive (Islam is evil and must be eradicated)
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To: FatherofFive
But you probably don't trust the Bible, because the Church gave us the Bible.

And great arguments ensued as to whether to INCLUDE JAMES into the bible.

159 posted on 09/04/2016 4:46:31 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: FatherofFive; Scythian_Reborn; AzIrish; HiTech RedNeck; Boogieman; Finatic
And here:"You see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." James 2:24

Which, if speaking of justification in the same sense as Paul is in Rm. 4, is contrary to both Moses (Gn. 15:6) and Paul, who both state that Abraham was counted righteousness by faith, which was before he offered up Issac. But works justify one as being a believer (cf. "I will shew thee my faith by my works," Ja. 2:18), having a complete faith, the issue being whether faith save one whose faith is not such that it effects works, (Ja. 2:14) the answer to which is no, and which Reformers as Luther taught.

And thus, as works evidence one has faith, thus it is those whose faith effect such that are promised salvation. (Rm. 2:13) but the effects of faith are not the cause of justification, as faith purifies the heart, (Acts 15:9) and thus "to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the unGodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." (Rm. 4:5)

Nor is Paul simply excluding to works of the Law as justificatory, but uses this as it represents the supreme system of justification by actually becoming good enough to be with God, "for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law." (Galatians 3:21)

173 posted on 09/04/2016 8:37:38 AM PDT by daniel1212 ( Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned and destitute sinner+ trust Him to save you, then follow Him!)
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