Posted on 04/01/2017 7:10:18 AM PDT by Kaslin
Nice try though.
>> "...the worship of Mary, the idols of Mary... are current practices in the RCC."<<
They are not. And, if you have normal reading comprehension, you've been amply corrected and you know that. That's what makes this kind of discussion so tedious, sometimes.
The practices of the average Catholic disagree with your statement. The voluminous writings of Catholics on this also disagree with you.
There is a poster on these threads with more than one example of Catholics kneeling before the idols of Mary. I'm not going to ping them because we don't need to go down that road today.
Phases of the moon may figure into it. I understand they sometime correlate with such things as estrogen, cortisol and serotonin levels and mood, especially for us blessed Christians of the feminine persuasion.
Much of the most dangerous Holocaust language had a surprisingly long history in Germany.
Karl Marx used the expression “The Jewish Question” in the 1840s.
And Kaiser Wilhelm II, in his personal correspondence, used the expression “a final solution to the Jewish Question” in the 1890s.
In my opinion, much of the Jew hatred during Luther's lifetime seems to be based on working class envy that a relatively large number of Jewish men were successfully employed in “white collar” occupations.
For you too, I'm thinking.
I’ve witnessed a particularly vehement apologist deny that there was ever such a thing as the Counter-Reformation, that Protestants had nothing to do with it.
Being well-versed in the Latin I’m sure you’ll agree then that it’s lunacy.
That's a good example for us to do today. Matter of fact, it's the only way we'll know for sure if a teaching is valid or not.
Yes: that's, sadly, all too obviously true.
But the Vatican (Stato della Città del Vaticano) is not a state church. It is a city-state. It has its own postage stamps, currency, diplomatic corps, etc. The Catholic Church existed before the Stato della Città del Vaticano, and --- if ISIS managed, God forbid, to nuke it ---- will exist after "the Vatican" is gone.
The Church is not a state. What she is, --- well, see tagline.
“Your history of Protestantism is very hobbled, stunted and incomplete.”
I only presented one aspect - Luther is the father of Protestantism. I made no attempt to present a complete history and there is no Protestant history BEFORE Luther.
“You’re in no position to speak authoritatively regarding Protestantism.”
Luther was the father of Protestantism. No one has to be in any particular position to know that or say it.
“Just because the Roman Catholic Church succeeded in killing off or driving underground others of Protestant belief does not erase their existence from history,”
There was NO PROTESTANT HISTORY before Luther. Just because a Protestant pretends there is a history of Protestantism before Luther doesn’t make it so.
“much as The Catholic Encyclopedia and apologists such as yourself may try. The Hussites, the Waldenses, it goes back hundreds of years prior to Luther and even then you ignore England and contemporaries to Luther.”
Neither the Hussites nor the Waldensians were Protestants. The fact that there were multiple heretical groups before the heresy of Protestantism doesn’t make Protestantism less heretical and it doesn’t make previous heretics Protestants.
“I’d say try again, but it’ll be more of the same, very predictable.”
The truth is fairly predictable. There were no Protestants before Luther. Protestants have to pretend there were or else their sects are instantly understood to be modern inventions - which is what they are.
The Crusades were, in terms of jus ad bellum, as defensive as the Allied invasion of Normandy. Their practice was sometimes criminal. Their purpose, however, was the liberation of the Holy Land from hostile hands (Seljuq Turks), the securing and restoration of the Holy Places, and the liberation of oppressed Christians.
I am a peace-lover but not a pacifist. As Thomas Merton once said, "I'm not opposed to all war in theory; just in practice."
Church as used by Roman Catholics denotes a denomination. The word in your tagline is the ekklesia...the body of believers.
Also, your tagline is incorrect in that Church is not in caps in the Greek nor is it in caps in the vast majority of the major translations.
Even the Douay-Rheims doesn't put church in caps.
Oh look, here’s our dear vlad again donning the mantle of Defender Of The Faith and pretending to know all things Protestant as well!
Quelle Surprise!
Non.
“If vlad were merely defending his church I wouldn’t even enter the discussion, but it’s always got to be slagging on Luther...”
I didn’t post the thread - which is ABOUT Protestants talking about Luther and whether he was or was not an anti-semite.
Maybe you should ask yourself why you think it so strange that someone would post about Luther in a thread about Luther? Why, in a thread about Luther, did you feel compelled to bring up the Catholic Church? It seems that you are the one who has to “slag” on something and you keep doing it even in threads not really about it. Why is that?
In a thread about Luther, I posted about Luther. That apparently bothers you. Get over it.
An anti-Protestant posting anti-Protestant babblings on a Protestant topic is nothing new.as you of all people should well know. I’ve gotten over it a long time ago, but I never let it slide when I see it.
In fairness to Luther, orthodox Jews, especially the ultra-orthodox, who take their religion very seriously, in general are little better than Muslims when it comes to how they view Gentiles, and especially Christians. Luther based his anti-semitism, which formed later in his life, by becoming aware of orthodox Jewish religious practice and teaching. This is very rarely admitted by Jews who use Luther to attack Christianity.
“Oh look, here’s our dear vlad again donning the mantle of Defender Of The Faith and pretending to know all things Protestant as well!”
Luther was the father of Protestantism. That is not a statement about all things or a claim to know all things on my part. It’s just obviously true. There were no Protestants before Luther.
And, if I am “donning the mantle of Defender Of The Faith and pretending to know all things Protestant”, then what are you donning and pretending at by denying historical facts? You can’t even see your hypocrisy can you?
But there was Protestant soteriology, like in Augustine, Chrysostom, and also even in contrary views of what the Papacy is.
Protestantism is not defined by you nor is it defined by the Roman Catholic Church, any more than the Roman Catholic Church is defined by Protestants, but that’s never stopped you. Can you see the hypocrisy? For some strange reason, it seems that you just can’t.
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