Report: Trump Caves on DACA, Wants ‘Quick’ Amnesty for 800K Illegal Aliens

It’s always been my observation that the one who starts the name calling first is the one losing the argument.

Funny, it's always the person who is losing the arugment when I consider it. If a person is siding with illegal immigrants over U.S. Citizens, that person has lost me. It's just not a winning argument to argue the illegal alien side, and trash the laws of our nation in the process. Jesus Christ siad, "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's." He believed in respecting reasoned rules of law. You're not making a case like that right now. I object!

I am not a malcontent by any means. I am a happy guy living a good life. I’m also a Christian, who tried to imagine what Christ would do in certain circumstances. And I’m quite certain Christ wouldn’t support sending a 20 year old who is in college and studying to be a doctor or engineer back to some hell hole where their parents came from and where they don’t even speak the language. How that benefits them... OR us is beyond me.

Never said you were a malcontent, but I do have to question certain things. I don't blindly follow behind bad laws supporting them.

1. We are a nation of laws.
2. Only Leftists advocate we disobey our reasoned laws
3. If a nation doesn't have a border, it ceases to be a nation
4. Nations have to control their borders.
5. Nations have the right to devise laws to govern their borders and enforce them
6. The numbers of people who break laws, do not call to question those laws.
7. If we suddently had 20,000 bank roberies per day, would the nation collectively say, "Well, you know, so many people are doing it. We should probably remove our statutes addressing armed robbery." It just doesn't work that way
8. Whatever number of illegal aliens we have, they are all here in volation of our laws
9. There is no valid defense for this.
10. It needs to be addressed. Those people need to go home.

You see, although we are a nation of laws, not all laws follow the teachings of Christ. Abortion is legal... but not Christian. But its very easy to blindly follow laws even if they don’t always make sense.

When you do this it's a mistake. Why? When you compare abortion to illegal immigration, you are comparing an issue of genocide with one of occupation of a foreign nation. They are not comparable.

Of course the allowance of abortion is clearly wrong. That doesn't mean that our immigration laws are wrong. They aren't just apples and oranges, they are boken body parts vs millions of people disrespecting our nation and occupying it.

If you have an area with ten million foreign nationals and 5.0 million citizens, you've essentially got grounds to claim it has become foreign territory. I won't stand for that. EVER!

Here’s my position re: people who were brought here as children. Do it on a case by case basis. If you are a productive US citizen, you can stay. You can go to the back of the line, and MAYBE someday get citizenship if you keep your nose in line. If you’re a parasite, you’re gone.

Sent them back home, and they get to apply like everyone else. There is no clause that says, "If they get caught, you have to evaluate their value to the nation." No, they just have to go back home. There is no equity between someone who stole someone elses place in line, and now wants the government to vouch for them. THEY NEED TO GO!

And before you begin your rant about me being a bleeding heart leftist, thats the President’s position as well.

You have got to undertand something. No matter who advocates the breaking of our laws, our laws do not suddenly fade away or become less binding.

You've labeled your own position here. I didn't have to. You recognize down deep inside that this was the bleeding heart leftist argument.

Do I wish these folks had not put themselves in this position? Sure. Do I have some sympathy for their position? Sure. Do I still think they need to go back home? Sure.

We have people every day in our nation, who have to give up a part of their life and live in incarceration because they made poor choices. Illegal immigrants aren't the only folks who have to abide by the law. We all do.

He did not cave on DACA - it is gone and going to be gone - it was illegal and unconstitutional. He has rescinded it - as it should have been. He never said he would commit to deporting those who came here as young kids to what is essentially a foreign country they have no knowledge of - not its culture, maybe not even its language - nor did he say he wouldn’t sign a bill giving them the opportunity to have legal status. He did promise stronger borders and tighter immigration controls - which is also already delivering on big time - there is much more to go, but he is moving in the right direction.

And of course, what is the source of all of this angst that he gave away the farm? Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, and the drive-by media. And look at how many people here just bought it hook, line, and sinker. What is with you all? He’s already been delivering on his promises for stronger border security and you claim he isn’t trying to deliver now? This is beyond absurd - sounds like a bunch of whining liberals around here engaging in purely emotional rather than factual arguments.

BidDaddy45, if you think it eliminates me from being justified to discuss this matter, because I didn’t serve in the military, that’s okay.

It’s yet one more childish position you’ve taken here.

I didn’t elect to serve in the military. It makes me no less of a citizen than you are.

That it seems to to you, seems to be one more childish position you have taken.

I don't care who holds that opinion. It is not supported by our immigration laws. And if we're not going to abide by our nation's laws, we're no better than any ghetto dweller who breaks the law at will.

We are talking about a bill being passed into law and signed by the President...what exactly is it that you are not understanding about this? In any event, the kids were brought here without any say in the matter - they did not fail to "abide by our nation's laws" nor "break the law at will." Why don't you try making a factual argument regarding the matter that is being discussed instead of this total nonsense? There is an actual real issue that has to be dealt with here - why is it you won't discuss what is actually being talked about?

I don't care who holds that opinion. It is not supported by our immigration laws. And if we're not going to abide by our nation's laws, we're no better than any ghetto dweller who breaks the law at will.

What part of that looks untrue to you?

Changing our laws to allow people who didn't follow the former laws, sounds reasoned to you? Really?

We are talking about a bill being passed into law and signed by the President...what exactly is it that you are not understanding about this?

What exactly causes you to fail to be able to comprehend we have laws on the books now, and that they should be enforced?

In any event, the kids were brought here without any say in the matter - they did not fail to "abide by our nation's laws" nor "break the law at will."

Sadly, their parents/guardians did. If your dad steels a car, should your family get to keep it, because it would be nice for your parents to able to give you rides in it

Why don't you try making a factual argument regarding the matter that is being discussed instead of this total nonsense?

The only person talking nonsense is you. We should not make special dispensation for illegal aliens who are here.

That isn't in accordance with the laws on our books, and it encourages other to break our laws to obtain personal advantage.

There is an actual real issue that has to be dealt with here - why is it you won't discuss what is actually being talked about?

This is really a challenging topic for you isn't it.

I am sure President Trump has dealt with lying double dealers in the past, after all he did have to deal with politicians.

Every time the media pulls a “gotcha” he was already five miles down the road.

I will wait and see how this all plays out.

“Does anybody really want to throw out good, educated and accomplished young people who have jobs, some serving in the military? Really!.....— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) September 14, 2017”

“”For those here illegally today who are seeking legal status, they will have one route and one route only. To return home and apply for re-entry like everybody else under the rules of the new legal immigration system that I have outlined today”

- Donald Trump, August 31, 2016

This is the kind of inconsistent stuff that originates with Pres Trump, not the media that worries me. Yeah I know some see it as the work of a brilliant master manipulator and deal maker to get what he wants. I’m just not as confident. I prefer to see consistency in message and a lot less drama.

There are way too many other statements out there by Trump and his staff not to take it seriously.

I started reading through all the nonsense you were trying to respond to last night. It is interesting to me to find people on this forum who have completely bought into the MSM’s portrayal of “dreamers”.

The vast majority were not brought here when they were babies or toddlers by their illegal alien parents and who then grew up never knowing the country of their birth. There may be a very small minority who fit that description... but even they tend to strongly identify with the country that they are legal citizens of. Most of the recent arrivals have been young men in their teens or older trying to exploit a loophole created illegally by President Obama in a transparent attempt to fast track foreigners who will vote Democrat. In the vast majority of cases they have migrated North without their parents.

My grandfather somehow managed to make it here from Norway in the 1920s when he was 15 years old. He came here legally, jumped through all of the hoops, worked hard, learned English and assimilated into our society. This is not the goal of this current crop of malcontents. They come here illegally to take advantage of our system and get citizenship in front of all the people who are going through the legal process of immigration. They may be under 21, but they fully understand what they are doing.

When I was still working for a fire department we responded frequently to a facility that housed these young men. The vast majority could not speak English. We responded because they were frequently fighting with each other. They mostly would have made fine extras in a remake of “The Treasure of the Sierra Madre” but were definitely not people you want roaming around the streets of your community. But these are the “dreamers” that I got to know and they are much more typical than the stereotype that is being foisted on us by the MSM and a few on this forum.

An Obama "Dreamer"