Posted on 09/04/2001 10:23:34 AM PDT by tbeatty
Edited on 09/03/2002 4:49:18 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
You do not have the facts straight on this.
Apparently you would have shot at the wrong house too.
Why does this matter ? St. Beck shot at the police for God's sake. He refused to surrender and chose to die instead.
It suggests you are mistaken. Keep looking.
The only reason I am here is to get the facts straight. Any FACTS you could provide with a source would be helpful.
If that is the case, that they had arrest and search warrants, and they saw Mr. Beck and he retreated into the house, they could have ran right in behind him. "Hot pursuit" deal.
I have to testify at the grand jury today at 2. I'm sure I'll bump into a detective or two, certainly a few prosecutors, I'll check into the "sealed warrant" but I believe it is what we call a "secret indictment."
I've already posted this for you (see #50). I've also posted it more than once.
You can continue to claim that there is no proof he's a felon but you'd be ignoring the facts.
Yes!! That's what happened. Read the accounts. There wasn't a SWAT team there until much later when the Sheriff took over the operation (it as a Sherriff SWAT team). The SWAT team never entered the house.
Friendly fire or not there are an unacceptable number of inconsistencies in law enforcements explanation of what happened here. The article you linked bases their determination on ..."steep downward arc" from the second floor (makes sense) and ...hearing a boom louder than any of the previous rounds of gunfire and seeing a puff of smoke coming from the second-floor window.
Yesterday they said An AK-47 and AR-15, a shotgun, a .380-caliber semiautomatic pistol, handguns and ammunition were collected from the ashes. What were the authorities firing, air rifles?
There have been conflicting reports of whether they were serving a search or arrest warrant, or both.
Kuredjian was alternately said to have been shot at the door serving the warrant, coming in through the window, and four doors away.
Beck set the fire, then the gas cannisters set the fire.
150 friendly rounds were fired, many of them at the wrong houses.
This is a trajedy for Officer Kuredjian, his family and friends. But so far the information supplied by the agencies involved raise more questions than they answer.
But even then, that particular line of reason is not conclusive. Kuredjian could have been facing his fellow officers for an update and not the house. Without knowing Kuredjians exact position, you wouldn't be able to tell whether a Beck bullet would enter the right or left temple no matter where he was.
That's why we also rely on the autopsy, experts, scene witnesses and the negotiation confession by Beck. All of which are outlined in the article.
You know damn well my position is that while in the process of serving a simple warrant, the BATF accompanied by LASD, totally lost control of this situation. They turned this entire neighborhood into a warzone nighmare.
The next door neighbors, a man and a wife along with their two day old baby were curled up on the floor of their home while bullets were ripping through their home, just several feet away from them. According the husband, his wife was completeley hysterical as they both tried to shield the baby. This neighbors home had over 50 God Damn bullet holes in it buddy. The neighbor went on to say that they never felt Beck was a threat. THESE PEOPLE WERE TERRORIZED PAL.
These law enfocement officers were shooting wildly and randomly at THREE different homes buddy. THIS WAS OUT OF CONTROL AND NO MATTER WHAT YOU SAY, IT WONT CHANGE THIS, MY FRIEND. ARE YOU INSANE? THIS WAS A WARRANT TURNED NIGHTMARE.
Go ahead and try and sugarcoat this all you want. You have no idea who I am and what I do. But it does not matter. As anyone could see this was unprofessional from the beginning. And their actions were even more in question by the quickness and manner in which they cleaned up the scene. I am fairly confident that you know all this as well as I do.
The problem is that I don't see how it was the BATF's fault. They underestimated Beck's response, to be sure, but that was reasonable given Beck's non-violent hitory. I certainly don't want the BATF to decide that, because of this, every future search warrant will be served using dynamic entry at 3:00 am. I've already posted that the firing at the wrong houses was unacceptable. Police should be firing at hard targets and accounting for every round.
The neighbor went on to say that they never felt Beck was a threat.
Prior to him going postal they felt that. They didn't feel he was not a threat when the first bullet of the confrontation, fired by Beck, ripped through their house and lodged into their bathroom above the mirror.
I can see this is not sinking in for you, so I will make one last try.
The only source that details felony convictions is the one account reported in the LA Times that you keep repeating over and over. Deputy U.S. Marshall Woolsey describes a totally unbelievable timeline of 3 convictions resulting in a total of 12 years of prison time beginning in 1990.
That is the only source anyone anywhere has sighted detailing the felony convictions. No conviction date is provided. No court of jurisdiction is provided. No information is provided that would permit a journalist to access a court record has been provided. When you say a journalist researched the court record you are providing incorrect information.
The challenge stands:
the first person to provide a conviction date, name of the court, name of the judge, time served and where , which I can confirm and I will make a $50.00 donation to FR in your name. Should not be that hard for you and I'll FReep mail you a copy of the money order.
COURT RECORDS. That is not the one law enforcement source, it is independant of the U.S. Marshall.
Now, I'm sure that you'll go into a diatribe of how this isn't valid because it comes from the untrustworthy L.A. Times or AP or blah,blah,blah.
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