Posted on 09/04/2001 10:23:34 AM PDT by tbeatty
Edited on 09/03/2002 4:49:18 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
BTW, sealed warrants are pretty typical because the affidavit that justified the warrant needs to remain secret to protect the case. I suspect that the warrant will be unsealed shortly.
Even when the supporting documentation is sealed, aren't the cops required to show a certified document of some sort (which I would probably call a warrant) to the occupant (if any) of property to be searched before entering? If people are required to consent to a search without actually being shown such a document, then it becomes trivial for cops to declare that any search was "consensual" [by contrast, if people are allowed to refuse entry unless/until they're actually shown a warrant and a cop thus has to break into a person's dwelling, it's impossible for a cop to credibly say the person consented to the search].
For some reason, none of the reports I've seen here make any mention of anyone trying to actually show Mr. Beck the warrant. A suspect has the right to actually read a warrant against him before complying with it; if the police refused to show Mr. Beck the warrant, he had every right to deny them entry to his property unless/until they relented and actually let him see the warrant (assuming it actually existed).
I would note that tbeatty seems to think that pæons are required to believe without question police claims that they have a valid warrant (without the police actually having to show it), but outside of his claims to that effect I've read nothing anyplace that would suggest that to be the case. Indeed, if things have fallen that far it suggests the Fourth Amendment is largely null and void.
Here's an interesting link
It's IRS but I suspect IRS and BATF rules are similiar since they're both treasury.
Read the article. Woolsey is the only source named for past convictions. Any competent journalist quoting directly from a court record would include a court name and date, Journalism 101. "authorities said." According to law enforcement and court records....
Let me spell it out. Woolsey says these are the past convictions from the law enforcement and court records....
The red flag is the sentence:"It is not known how many years he ultimately served, authorities(i.e. Woolsey)said." The data base providing prior felony convictions would include dates of incarceration.
Since you are sure this court record exists, why can't you give the court or the date? Is that really too much to ask for someone interested in an explanation for this tragedy?
I am not saying Beck was not a convicted felon. That fact, however, is so important it needs to be confirmed with the name of the court and the date of conviction.
If you can't read the article and see the holes in the timeline and years served given by Woolsey for yourself, I am absolutely sure there is nothing I could write that would help you. All I can say is you must either be in federal law enforcement or you at least qualify.
Gladly, sir. BTW, it will be in addition to my annual November donation. I will be away from the computer from Sat to Mon at noon so please Freep mail me with the specific information. Thanks for your efforts at confirming important information. The longer the questions go unanswered, the greater the possibility that the shootout could be misrepresented in the minds of many.
If Beck was a convicted felon, in my mind, that is the end of the story for me.
I'd still like to know why officers are trained to unload their firearms in what they hope is the general direction of the suspect without any sign of a clear and specific target.
Not only does such behavior put innocent people at risk, but it actually makes it less likely that the cops will actually stop the suspect than if they wait until they have a clear shot and take it.
Actually it was Democrat Congressman John Dingle from Michigan who said that. The NRA merely reprinted in one of their fund raising newsletters.
My point is that conservatives, especially RKBA supporters, will not win by deifying Beck as "victim of overzealous law enforcement." RKBA supporters should be pointing out that Beck ISN'T a law abiding gun owner and that more GC laws WON'T prevent this tragedy. Even now, we see the MMM organizing a candle light vigil for this deputy and I suspect that they don't have a completely altruistic agenda.
The warrant should be unsealed by now. TB can you post it.
By the way Honway did TB ever produce the proof he promised by the upcoming weekend in post #386 on 9/06/01?
Yes, he produced a wrap sheet that was sufficient for me. Along with my money order to FR in recognition of his work, I requested FR to Freepmail TB that a donation had been received in his honor. I hope the message was sent. It was a fine piece of work and FR at it's best, IMHO.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.