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Here may be our problem with Islam
The Koran #47 - Muhammad ^ | 600+ AD | Muhammad

Posted on 09/19/2001 10:47:16 AM PDT by XBob

The Koran


Muhammad

In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.[47.1] (As for) those who disbelieve and turn away from Allah's way, He shall render their works ineffective.
[47.2] And (as for) those who believe and do good, and believe in what has been revealed to Muhammad, and it is the very truth from their Lord, He will remove their evil from them and improve their condition.
[47.3] That is because those who disbelieve follow falsehood, and have given them their dowries, taking (them) in marriage, not fornicating nor taking them for paramours in secret; and whoever denies faith, his work indeed is of no account, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers.
[47.4] So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners, and afterwards either set them free as a favor or let them ransom (themselves) until the war terminates. That (shall be so); and if Allah had pleased He would certainly have exacted what is due from them, but that He may try some of you by means of others; and (as for) those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will by no means allow their deeds to perish.
[47.5] He will guide them and improve their condition.
[47.6] And cause them to enter the garden which He has made known to them.
[47.7] O you who believe ! if you help (the cause of) Allah, He will help you and make firm your feet.
[47.8] And (as for) those who disbelieve, for them is destruction and He has made their deeds ineffective.
[47.9] That is because they hated what Allah revealed, so He rendered their deeds null.
[47.10] Have they not then journeyed in the land and seen how was the end of those before them: Allah brought down destruction upon them, and the unbelievers shall have the like of it.
[47.11] That is because Allah is the Protector of those who believe, and because the unbelievers shall have no protector for them.
[47.12] Surely Allah will make those who believe and do good enter gardens beneath which rivers flow; and those who disbelieve enjoy themselves and eat as the beasts eat, and the fire is their abode.
[47.13] And how many a town which was far more powerful than the town of yours which has driven you out: We destroyed them so there was no helper for them.
[47.14] What! is he who has a clear argument from his Lord like him to whom the evil of his work is made fairseeming: and they follow their low desires.
[47.15] A parable of the garden which those guarding (against evil) are promised: Therein are rivers of water that does not alter, and rivers of milk the taste whereof does not change, and rivers of drink delicious to those who drink, and rivers of honey clarified and for them therein are all fruits and protection from their Lord. (Are these) like those who abide in the fire and who are made to drink boiling water so it rends their bowels asunder.
[47.16] And there are those of them who seek to listen to you, until when they go forth from you, they say to those who have been given the knowledge: What was it that he said just now? These are they upon whose hearts Allah has set a seal and they follow their low desires.
[47.17] And (as for) those who follow the right direction, He increases them in guidance and gives them their guarding (against evil).
[47.18] Do they then wait for aught but the hour that it should come to them all of a sudden? Now indeed the tokens of it have (already) come, but how shall they have their reminder when it comes on them?
[47.19] So know that there is no god but Allah, and, ask protection for your fault and for the believing men and the believing women; and Allah knows the place of your returning and the place of your abiding.
[47.20] And those who believe say: Why has not a chapter been revealed? But when a decisive chapter is revealed, and fighting is mentioned therein you see those in whose hearts is a disease look to you with the look of one fainting because of death. Woe to them then!
[47.21] Obedience and a gentle word (was proper); but when the affair becomes settled, then if they remain true to Allah it would certainly be better for them.
[47.22] But if you held command, you were sure to make mischief in the land and cut off the ties of kinship!
[47.23] Those it is whom Allah has cursed so He has made them deaf and blinded their eyes.
[47.24] Do they not then reflect on the Quran? Nay, on the hearts there are locks.
[47.25] Surely (as for) those who return on their backs after that guidance has become manifest to them, the Shaitan has made it a light matter to them; and He gives them respite.
[47.26] That is because they say to those who hate what Allah has revealed: We will obey you in some of the affairs; and Allah knows their secrets.
[47.27] But how will it be when the angels cause them to die smiting their backs.
[47.28] That is because they follow what is displeasing to Allah and are averse to His pleasure, therefore He has made null their deeds.
[47.29] Or do those in whose hearts is a disease think that Allah will not bring forth their spite?
[47.30] And if We please We would have made you know them so that you would certainly have recognized them by their marks and most certainly you can recognize them by the intent of (their) speech; and Allah knows your deeds.
[47.31] And most certainly We will try you until We have known those among you who exert themselves hard, and the patient, and made your case manifest.
[47.32] Surely those who disbelieve and turn away from Allah's way and oppose the Apostle after that guidance has become clear to them cannot harm Allah in any way, and He will make null their deeds.
[47.33] O you who believe! obey Allah and obey the Apostle, and do not make your deeds of no effect.
[47.34] Surely those who disbelieve and turn away from Allah's way, then they die while they are unbelievers, Allah will by no means forgive them.
[47.35] And be not slack so as to cry for peace and you have the upper hand, and Allah is with you, and He will not bring your deeds to naught.
[47.36] The life of this world is only idle sport and play, and if you believe and guard (against evil) He will give you your rewards, and will not ask of you your possessions.
[47.37] If He should ask you for it and urge you, you will be niggardly, and He will bring forth your malice.
[47.38] Behold! you are those who are called upon to spend in Allah's way, but among you are those who are niggardly, and whoever is niggardly is niggardly against his own soul; and Allah is Self-sufficient and you have need (of Him), and if you turn back He will bring in your place another people, then they will not be like you.




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Comment #121 Removed by Moderator

To: XBob
Just off the top of my tired head: Christianity is faith-based, individualistic and universalistic. Judaism puts more emphasis on practices and laws, and is community-based and not universalistic. Islam is practice and ritual centered, community-based and universalistic. The eastern religions adhere to a very different way of thinking than the Western monotheisms, though one could draw vague or loose parallels between Buddhism and Christianity or Hinduism and Judaism if one really wanted to. Judaism's influence over the secular world is limited by its emphasis on one particular people, Christianity by its growing emphasis on the individual and his conscience, Hinduism by its many gods and cults and emphasis on the god within, Buddhism by it's essential unwordliness or other worldliness. Islam's power over society doesn't face these limitations.

Also, the Koran was written in one life time and reflects one particular set of circumstances: the establishment of a new religion in bitter competition and contestation. The Hebrew Bible, and to some degree the Christian gospels and epistles and the writings of Eastern religions that we take to be canonical evolved over longer periods of time and reflect different circumstances.

There is an interesting article in Saturday's Times: The World is Paying For the Failure of a Dream. According to the author, Michael Binyon, Islam was quite self-confident until the rise of Mongols and Turks and then of the West, which threw them back upon themselves and eventually led some into deep bitterness. A dominant, self-confident religion may find it easier to adapt to "modernity" than one that is forever conscious of being thought backward or inferior.

Sorry if I've insulted anyone's or everyone's religion. I can't claim to speak with any authority on any of this.

122 posted on 09/21/2001 7:09:31 PM PDT by x
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Comment #123 Removed by Moderator

To: Malachi
slavery was common in those days, and in the bible, and in the days of Jesus, and was accepted. Remember the story of Ben Hur who became a galley slave.
124 posted on 09/21/2001 11:47:37 PM PDT by XBob
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To: donh
We will soon know by the alliances that are formed in the next FEW days

Let us keep clear heads. And as I say to my children every day, "PAY ATTENTION">

125 posted on 09/22/2001 12:48:52 AM PDT by steelie
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To: XBob
Ya know XBob. The difference between Islam and Christianity is Jesus and that's all the difference in the world.

Jesus lifted women to a high position and cared for them. In Islam women are less than dirt, they are chattle.

Jesus healed the sick, raised the dead, cast out demons, fed the multitudes, preached the Word of GOD, raised the dead. The works of the followers of Christ are missions, hospitals(St. Lukes for example, Red Cross), orphanages, charity, ending injustices (William Carey in India ending setee, William Wilburforce ending slavery in Great Britain, Dr. Peter Hammond in Sudan fighting modern islamic slavery and murder)

Islam converts by the sword, terrorizes infidels (Christians, Jews, Buddhist[Taliban destroying buddist statue], etc...), robs, pillages, enslaves and then says they are peaceful.

My point is that not that Christ needs a defense (the sinless dying for the sinner) but that it is a cheap shot to try and lower the Lord Jesus Christ to the level of islam.

Ye shall know them by their works and followers of Jesus Christ did not slam into the side of the WTC.

126 posted on 09/22/2001 1:17:24 AM PDT by marxwas a loser
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To: AppyPappy

Allah - the Moon God

The Archeology of The Middle East

The religion of Islam has as its focus of worship a deity by the name of "Allah." The Muslims claim that Allah in pre-Islamic times was the biblical God of the Patriarchs, prophets, and apostles. The issue is thus one of continuity. Was "Allah" the biblical God or a pagan god in Arabia during pre-Islamic times? The Muslim's claim of continuity is essential to their attempt to convert Jews and Christians for if "Allah" is part of the flow of divine revelation in Scripture, then it is the next step in biblical religion. Thus we should all become Muslims. But, on the other hand, if Allah was a pre-Islamic pagan deity, then its core claim is refuted. Religious claims often fall before the results of hard sciences such as archeology. We can endlessly speculate about the past or go and dig it up and see what the evidence reveals. This is the only way to find out the truth concerning the origins of Allah. As we shall see, the hard evidence demonstrates that the god Allah was a pagan deity. In fact, he was the Moon-god who was married to the sun goddess and the stars were his daughters.

LINK TO THE REST OF THE ARTICLE......

The pagan Arabs worshipped the Moon-god Allah by praying toward Mecca several times a day; making a pilgrimage to Mecca; running around the temple of the Moon-god called the Kabah; kissing the black stone; killing an animal in sacrifice to the Moon-god; throwing stones at the devil; fasting for the month which begins and ends with the crescent moon; giving alms to the poor, etc.

The Muslim's claim that Allah is the God of the Bible and that Islam arose from the religion of the prophets and apostles is refuted by solid, overwhelming archeological evidence. Islam is nothing more than a revival of the ancient Moon-god cult. It has taken the symbols, the rites, the ceremonies, and even the name of its god from the ancient pagan religion of the Moon-god. As such, it is sheer idolatry and must be rejected by all those who follow the Torah and Gospel. moongod.htm


127 posted on 09/22/2001 1:37:46 AM PDT by marxwas a loser
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To: marxwas a loser
"Ye shall know them by their works and followers of Jesus Christ did not slam into the side of the WTC."

No, they just invented the KKK, performed a lot of lynchings, implemented slavery of indians and blacks, poured gold down the throats of the indians to 'convert' them, blew up a lot of catholics/protestants in Ireland, napalmed 100,000 on the road of death in Iraq, bombed the hell out of Serbia for an oil pipeline, went to the mid-east and fought the 'holy' wars of the crusades. Little things like that.

128 posted on 09/22/2001 3:14:18 AM PDT by XBob
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To: marxwas a loser
coming from one who thinks Jesus walked on water, turned water into wine, raised the dead, was conceived by god in a virgin, fed 5000 with a few loaves and fishes, why should the moon god give you a problem?
129 posted on 09/22/2001 3:21:43 AM PDT by XBob
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To: XBob
Bump.
130 posted on 09/22/2001 3:23:24 AM PDT by FReethesheeples
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Comment #131 Removed by Moderator

Comment #132 Removed by Moderator

To: XBob
No, they just invented the KKK,

NOT TRUE.

performed a lot of lynchings, implemented slavery of indians and blacks,

You don't know what you are talking about, prove it!

poured gold down the throats of the indians to 'convert' them,

Give reference, lol!

blew up a lot of catholics/protestants in Ireland,

Christians did that, huh?

napalmed 100,000 on the road of death in Iraq,

Sounds like some fantasy history to me!

bombed the hell out of Serbia for an oil pipeline,

Cristians, huh?

went to the mid-east and fought the 'holy' wars of the crusades.

The world was predominatly Catholic and the people who went on the "crusades" were driving Moslems out of the Holy Land. I have no problem with that!

Little things like that.

Well, clearly you are here with a pro-islam agenda. I clearly am not.

I have just one question for you, are you posting directly from Bahgdad?

BTW...if you are even interested a "CHRISTIAN" is someone who trust Jesus Christ for their personal salvation of their soul by believing that his death on the cross was an atoning death for their personal sin. That he was buried and rose BODILY from the dead on the third day. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.

133 posted on 09/22/2001 11:05:15 AM PDT by marxwas a loser
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To: XBob
coming from one who thinks Jesus walked on water, turned water into wine, raised the dead, was conceived by god in a virgin, fed 5000 with a few loaves and fishes, why should the moon god give you a problem?

SO, you admit Allah is a pagan diety?

FYI, Jesus did do those things!

134 posted on 09/22/2001 11:08:31 AM PDT by marxwas a loser
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To: marxwas a loser
133 - Wow, ignorant one - such a litany of purposeful ignorance and stupidty is hard to match, and not worth repeating at all. You have really demonstrated where you come from.

As far as "Well, clearly you are here with a pro-islam agenda. I clearly am not. I have just one question for you, are you posting directly from Bahgdad?", why don't you read who posted this thread to begin with.

135 posted on 09/22/2001 12:44:02 PM PDT by XBob
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To: marxwas a loser
134 - FYI, Jesus did do those things! ' 133 - "That he was buried and rose BODILY from the dead on the third day. ", sorry, I didn't put that one in, but if you insist.

"SO, you admit Allah is a pagan diety? " - Why not, that's the god you believe in, so, what difference does it make to me.

As has been repeated so many times for the ignorant like you - Jews, Christians, and Moslems all believe in the same god - except that no messiah has come yet for JEHOVA, christ was the messiah for the christian's GOD, and Mohammed was the PROPHET for islam's ALLAH, all one and the same GOD.

136 posted on 09/22/2001 12:52:51 PM PDT by XBob
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To: XBob

What is this inordinate interest you have in heroin???

The Taliban is widely acknowledged to be the biggest heroin pushers in the world. It undoubtedly funded much of this attack, just as it has funded much of the 20th centuries' government's unfunded covert ops. Is that a good enough reason?

137 posted on 09/23/2001 3:12:29 PM PDT by donh
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To: XBob
Thank you for your research and post.

Bookmarked.

138 posted on 09/23/2001 4:28:22 PM PDT by EverOnward
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To: XBob

Please tell this to President Mubarak, and see what he says, the moderate moslem that these very same people tried to kill three times when I was in Egypt, with bombs and bullets.

You are refuting a position I do not hold. My point is that the likely result of the inadequatly thought-through injection of force in in the Middle East in response to the attack on the twin towers, would be the blurring of this distinction, both in american perception, and Middle Eastern responses. Just as the bombers probably intended.

139 posted on 09/23/2001 7:22:02 PM PDT by donh
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Comment #140 Removed by Moderator


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