Catholics oppose Death Penalty?

Catholic mass -- 9 Dec. 2001 | Thinktwice

[thinktwice]

I was at a Catholic Mass this morning, and the litany of prayer requests read from the altar included ... "We pray for the end of abortion, euthanasia, and capital punishment."

[thinktwice]

Can anyone tell us if this is coming down -- as church doctrine -- from the US Cathoiic bishops?

[riley1992]

Yes, it is opposed except in extreme cases. This comes straight from the Pope.

[thinktwice]

Isn't it terrific to have a US President that wants bin Laden "Dead or alive"?

[nancetc]

Funny, I guess since the Pope apologized for tortures and murders committed by the Catholic Church in the past it now speaks from a position of authority.

[ChicagoRepublican]

Catholics listen and respect the Pope. I've seen the Pope help liberate a nation, making him along with Ronald Reagan my two heroes. I feel that my faith is important and I believe the government shouldn't execute people. Candidates that are for abolishing capital punishments can't be trusted though because they also want to "reform" prison and turn it into some type of luxury hotel.

[riley1992]

Who really listens to the Pope or the Church?

Quite a few people.

[riley1992]

I don't recall this Pope murdering and executing anyone so your analogy is weak at best.

[watsonfellow]

Actually, the current position on the Death Penalty is not a mandatory position for Catholics to hold. Meaning Catholics in good standing can part company with the Holy Father.

Issues such as trasubstantiation, Abortion, women priests, these are doctrinal issues that cannot be opposed. If you are pro-choice you stand outside the Church.

For example, when the Pope speaks about forgiving Third World Debt, one can disagree with that, believing it to be poor public policy and economics, and still remain a communicant. If you support abortion or women priests, you cannot.

Buckeley (I did not spell that correctly) printed an essay in the National Review decades ago during the pontificate of John XXIII, entitled, Matri Si, Magistri Non, critisizing John's cozying up to the Communists....

Historically the Church has supported the Death Penalty in justified cases, under the Just War theory, and in various Catechisms you will see, under 5th Comm. sections, support for a just and fair Death Penalty. Even this Pope does not universally condemn the Death Penalty, just everywhere it currently is implemented ( :) ). But this is an important distinction. Whereas abortion can never be justified, the Death Penalty can be-- it is just not justifiable anywhere on Earth right now! (at least according to the Holy Father).

So if you support the Death Penalty and are a committed Catholic, have no fear, you may recieve a stern lecture from your priest or bishop, but you remain within the Holy Mother Church.

[riley1992]

Yes, I do know that. It is one issue where I do part company with the Church.

[katze]

Some religious Orders (nuns, brothers, priests) have adopted this thought; some are activists, doing formal protests.

If this happened 50 yrs ago, I might agree. The problem now, what was considered a heinous crime back then, is almost a daily occurrence. IMO, this changes the ground rules. If nothing else, it gets the criminals off the streets, and eliminates all chance for parole. Perhaps I have a warped view, but even being Catholic, I believe the idea that God is the one who decides when someone dies--that works both ways, the victim *and* murderer.

[thinktwice]

you may recieve a stern lecture from your priest or bishop

Is there a reason why Bishops burning people at the stake isn't permitted these days?

[nancetc]

He apologized for past sins of members of the Catholic Church...Language of the apologies: The language used in both Pope John Paul II's apology and the "Memory and Reconciliation" seems to downplay the seriousness of the sins and errors committed:
In an apparent reference to the instructions of church leaders and councils which resulted in burning hundreds of thousands of Jews alive, in exiling them from entire countries, in forcing them into ghettos, the document said that "The hostility and wariness of numerous Christians toward Jews over the course of time is a painful historic fact." In the pope's homily, he referred to "attitudes of mistrust and hostility assumed towards followers of other religions." Some might think that the church's actions went well beyond simple "hostility," " wariness" and " mistrust" to include mass murder and perhaps even genocide.

In an apparent reference to: the jailing, torture, and burning alive of individuals such as outspoken scientists, people perceived to be heretics, natural healers, midwives and others, and to
the wars of extermination committed by the Church against the Cathars, Knights Templars and other break-away Christian groups, the pope referred to "the use of violence that some have committed in the service of truth.."

The report refers "to intolerance and even the use of force in the service of truth." It also discusses the past "lack of discernment by many Christians in situations where basic human rights were violated." Some might think that the church's: Use of torture on prisoners, and the subsequent burning them alive, and Genocide against entire religious groups, went well beyond simple violence and lack of appreciation of human rights. Fr. "Brugues was more direct in his language. According to Reuters, he "said this was a reference to the Inquisition, which was marked by the torture and killing of people branded as heretics, and the enforced conversion of non-believers." from (http://www.religioustolerance.org/pope_apo.htm).

The analogy is ... the Church for hundreds of years tortured and murdered people (a penalty of death for heirsy-which is what they accused many of). Now they can stand against the death penalty because they come from the "cleared conscience" of having apologized for past sins.

[riley1992]

Wrong. The apology is rather recent. The Pope's view on the death penalty is not.

[codeword]

Issues such as trasubstantiation, Abortion, women priests, these are doctrinal issues that cannot be opposed. If you are pro-choice you stand outside the Church.

Why is abortion a doctrinal issue but capital punishment not? I.e., what is the criterion for a "doctrinal issue"?

[watsonfellow]

And we must all remember. The Holy Father has lived under some of the most brutal regimes in history. The Polish Nationalists in the twenties and thirties, the Nazis and then the Communists. He saw the death penalty abused first hand abused and misused. This is not to say that the Pope does not understand the huge differences between just (re. American) and unjust uses of the Death Penalty, but still his past experiences have clearly tinged his view of the issue.

[thinktwice]

Now they can stand against the death penalty because they come from the "cleared conscience" of having apologized for past sins.

When it comes to justice, the Catholic clergy's business is confession -- no more, no less.

[Okies love Dubya 2]

I also part company with the Catholic Church on the death penalty. My sister in law who is now in RCIA asked me about this very issue over the summer. I explained it to her the best I could, but I think the explanations I've read here are better than what I gave, and I will pass them along to her when I see her next.

[watsonfellow]

Because abortion can never be justified, as it is always the taking of an innocent life.

And thus directly contradicts the fifth comm. "Thou shall not kill".

The Death Penalty falls under the just war doctrine.

[riley1992]

You are right, he has lived a life unlike anything you or I will ever know. On this issue, I don't question his line of thinking at all. I clearly understand why he feels as he does. I just believe otherwise.