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Missing Danielle Parents Allegedly Swingers
Larry King Live ^ | Brenda & Damon Van Dam

Posted on 02/11/2002 5:06:42 PM PST by Petronski

Larry asked them about it just now on Larry King Live (2-11-2), and they refused to deny it.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: libertarians
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To: Solson; Sneakypete
"? So goes your morality argument."

Sneakypete is totally cynical about the world. I am as well, but he outdoes even me. I sense something really messed up in his mind, almost evil. He is not a man you could turn your back on. Sneaky, you need help. I have been a correctional officer in a state pen. You make the right sounds to be an inmate.

551 posted on 02/12/2002 7:35:00 AM PST by Don Myers
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To: sneakypete
HorseHillary! You just WANT to blame the parents because it makes you feel superior to them. Let's take a wild chance and suppose for just one minute that it was a total stranger (like in the Polly Klass case) who abducted the girl,ok? Would you feel sorry for the greiving parents then? Or do they still deserve no sympathy for losing a child,merely because they liked to have sex outside of their marriage?

Please, sneakypete, never go into law enforcement!

Your posts have demonstrated that you hold women and girls in deep contempt. Thus, it is likely that on a subconscious level, or perhaps not subconscious, you would have the attitude, "she got what was coming to her."

Also, you, and a few others have demonstrated a remarkable ability to overlook obvious leads and discrepencies in a criminal investigation. So what if there were people in the house around the time of the kidnapping...what could they have to do with anything?????

The bar friends, the swingers, the sexual addicts are all the good and nice guys...you would probably go after the monogamous family up the street and harrass them. Your posts have indicated that it's the monogamous men and women that you do not trust and have contempt for.

I know that California is an extremely liberal state, but in many, many other states, if a child is hurt or killed during the course of parental pursuits...such as waking up and wandering into a crack party, and being thrown against the wall...the parents are as liable as the "guest" who threw the child.

552 posted on 02/12/2002 7:36:31 AM PST by Selara
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To: Selara
Only in Calif. where what Danielle's Mom and Dad did is "Normal" would they be free right now. Here in the Heartland, if Parents were out screwing around and having sex with anyone they could bring home from a bar, and endangering 3 children, they would be suspects and locked up and the kids would already be in foster homes. But, of course, where Lady Comics( I forget her name), can do their kids and nothing happens to them, what else can we expect??
553 posted on 02/12/2002 7:41:12 AM PST by mikemurphy111
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To: Don Myers
I don't know him so I won't make a personal judgement. that said, he is being hypocritical in his approach towards whatever he defines as his morality or values.

He screeches about those trying to impose a religious viewpoint on sex and marriage but when someone takes a logical extension to homosexual sex and NAMBLA type sex, he guffaws at the comparison.

The comparison isn't in the type of sex, it is in the imposition of "values" or morals.

Sounds to me like he's too busy hating organized religion to really define what his "values" are.

554 posted on 02/12/2002 7:42:53 AM PST by Solson
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To: golitely
Post 549. Clinton was a product of his times. He was so popular and is still popular because many people identified with him. He is a good ol' boy who made it to the big time. Many, many people admire him for his sexual "victories." It doesn't matter if he raped a thousand women.

Women have fallen from their place of honor where men believed they should protect them. Our culture has done that. Women have become competitors and "equals" rather than cherished and loved women. Rather than being true equals with man and helpmates, they have become something to be conquered.

Women have largely become mere sexual objects anyway, so why would raping them bother these men? Women have low self-esteem that they think they have to prostitute themselves in order to get the attention of these low-life men. Both men and women in our culture have sunk to the sewer level. It is a no-win scenario.

Sexual deviates and just messed-up-in-the-mind people won't admit they need help. Sometimes, they don't even know it.

555 posted on 02/12/2002 7:46:20 AM PST by Don Myers
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To: Solson
Post 554. I have seen many people who need help. Such a poisoned view of mankind is not healthy. He doesn't have the help of religion to help him. Such a person has no hope. A person without hope will do anything.
556 posted on 02/12/2002 7:48:47 AM PST by Don Myers
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To: sneakypete
These people are creeps and control freaks to the point where MANY (not all!) of them would prefer a theocracy over a Republic.I've been dealing with these idiots all my life.

This threat is far overblown.

Personally, I don't want a theocracy......whose would it be? The Catholics? Presbyterian? Orthodox?........

I'm interesting that many of you who like to boast about your independent thinking do nothing but ape what the leftist press has to say on the matter.

They love to scare people with the 'theocracy' strawman, and it seems to have worked on you. Just think of it.......you've been brainwashed by the left.

The left uses the 'theocracy' strawman so it may justify banning Christians from the political arena........and why?

For the same reason every totalitarian goes after those of faith in the first wave. Because while everybody else slips into moral bankruptcy, they know that the Christians are going to call them on the inevitable abomonations they will be implementing. Because when everybody else is so concentrated on the 'self', and their own pleasures, gratifications, they don't even notice these facists coming. Because everybody else will be so paralysed by their inability to condemn anything. Not so with us, and they hate us for that quality.

You have fallen for it hook, line, and sinker.

557 posted on 02/12/2002 7:49:35 AM PST by He Rides A White Horse
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To: mikemurphy111
I can't believe they still have their other kids.
558 posted on 02/12/2002 7:49:59 AM PST by Don Myers
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To: jocon307
You're right, I meant no sign of murder. Guess I was being optimistic that the little girl is ok. As the police often say, if little ones aren't found within 24-48 hours, they're usually found dead if found at all. There is something definately foul in the air and it seems to be all around her parents.
559 posted on 02/12/2002 8:04:40 AM PST by Blackdakota
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To: He Rides A White Horse
"Give me a break with you moral relativity."

That's the kind of response someone puts up when their argument has fallen on its face.

560 posted on 02/12/2002 8:05:42 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez
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To: FITZ
When the guy from Sears knocks on your door, do you just let him in to fix the dishwasher, or do you run a background check on him with the sexual predator database before you allow him into your house?

IOW, how do you know that that repairman wasn't at a swingers club the night before?

561 posted on 02/12/2002 8:09:54 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez
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To: twigs
I bet that if we discuss the intimate details of your lovemaking, and your sexual history, I can find plenty of people that may find things that you consider normal to be "perverted".
562 posted on 02/12/2002 8:13:06 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez
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To: jocon307
Well, one thing is for sure; if my wife was out barhopping, and she didn't make it home before 2:30, I would be out rather angrily looking for her.

A really bothersome thing is that the alarm system indicated an open door (described in one writeup as an open sliding patio door and an open garage door). That evidently evoked no curiosity on the part of the husband or wife. I think the first reaction of any parent would have been to see if the kids were OK.

And the mom dancing with the suspected next door neighbor? Something smells about the whole setup.

563 posted on 02/12/2002 8:14:20 AM PST by Ole Okie
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To: JavaTheHutt
NO doubt the guy is strange. Something is definatley strange with the whole situation.
564 posted on 02/12/2002 8:16:19 AM PST by cactmh
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To: Ole Okie
"Well, one thing is for sure; if my wife was out barhopping, and she didn't make it home before 2:30, I would be out rather angrily looking for her. "

She wouldn't even be my wife. But that is the difference in the sub-cultures of our society. They do things differently. They think differently. They act differently. And we are talking about sub-cultures. People who live on the seamy side of life don't have the same values as the majority. I am hoping that they are still the minority.

565 posted on 02/12/2002 8:19:07 AM PST by Don Myers
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To: Luis Gonzalez;Fritz
"IOW, how do you know that that repairman wasn't at a swingers club the night before?"

If you pick up some dude from a bar, you know what you are dealing with. There is a question about the repairman who you call to fix something. But you still don't trust any stranger that comes into your house. You watch that person, and a woman alone should never let in anyone.

566 posted on 02/12/2002 8:22:09 AM PST by Don Myers
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To: Don Myers
Sneakypete is totally cynical about the world. I am as well, but he outdoes even me. I sense something really messed up in his mind, almost evil. He is not a man you could turn your back on. Sneaky, you need help. I have been a correctional officer in a state pen. You make the right sounds to be an inmate.

Good grief. YOU sense evil? You call pete a messed up convict type? -- Pete was out there in Nam, putting his life on the line while you were acting 'tough cop' in front of a bunch of losers.

Your prior record of posts here at FR have real evidence of the 'evil' in your heart, as does the one above. -- Pete may be cynical, but at least he is honest to himself. You're a rank hypocrite, in my book.

567 posted on 02/12/2002 8:22:39 AM PST by tpaine
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To: golitely
You assume a lot of things here.

You assume that there are wedding vows involved, there may not have been any, one CAN get married by a clerk at the County Court.

Two, you are using the word "violate" which implies that one of the spouses is either unaware, or opposed to the actions, they do not seem to be.

And you assume that I am attacking a Christian marriage, I am not attacking anything.

If anything, the attacks come from "good Christian folks" who have yet to offer a prayer for a little lost girl, or a prayer that these parents find salvation.

Go ahead, castr that stone, Jesus is watching, and He CAN sit in judgement.

568 posted on 02/12/2002 8:25:08 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez
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To: tpaine
Well, hi, Tom. Are you still out there? You and I have posted before to each other. Your opinion is hardly unbiased.

Sneakypete was in Vietnam? Well, gee, so were a lot of us. And what does that have to do with such a poisoned outlook on life? Such a person needs help, not mere sympathy.

569 posted on 02/12/2002 8:27:20 AM PST by Don Myers
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To: murdoog
Agreed, as of this moment all we have is a talk show host throwing allegations around from "unnamed" sources about their sexual activities. Let alone anything regarding how this may or may not relate to their missing child.

I will hold judgement on their parental ability until something far more than talk show and internet allegations occur. If it turns out they are involved in a lifestyle and that lifestyle directly contributed to their childs disappearance I will condemn them. For now though, I'll wait and see.

570 posted on 02/12/2002 8:28:09 AM PST by HamiltonJay
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To: Luis Gonzalez
The guy from Sears does not knock on my door unannounced. There is an appointment made. My husband, or some other family member, is here when he arrives. It is fairly well-known that appliance repairmen are frequently ex-felons. I do not allow them in my home unless someone is with me. I won't discuss other self-protection measures we take, but trust me, we take them.
571 posted on 02/12/2002 8:28:30 AM PST by MizSterious
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To: Ole Okie
The story was that this was NOT a next door neighbor, but lived some blocks away in a very densely settled condo and apartment zone, thousands of people lived as close to the Van Dams as Westerfield did...they did not know him, had never seen him, until they went to his door selling Girl Scout Cookies!

Sounds like the conversation drifted from cookies to making an appointment to meet at a bar, and maybe more...with the little girl present?

572 posted on 02/12/2002 8:30:11 AM PST by crystalk
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To: crystalk
"Sounds like the conversation drifted from cookies to making an appointment to meet at a bar, and maybe more...with the little girl present?"

Very possibly. We don't know for sure yet just what happened. But a casual pickup or sexual liason with a total stranger would not be alien to these people.

573 posted on 02/12/2002 8:32:24 AM PST by Don Myers
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Perhaps you didn't read the thread from the beginning. Prayers have been offered up, and I've had this wee one on my daily prayer list since I first heard about her disappearance. Talk about assumptions. And--any marriage should be considered a sacred bond. Even civil ceremonies usually use that term. If you are not ready to settle down with one partner for life, perhaps it's not yet time to get married. There's nothing wrong with waiting until both people are ready for such a commitment.
574 posted on 02/12/2002 8:33:03 AM PST by MizSterious
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To: golitely
It has been interesting watching how this thread has gone. It has gone from a post about a missing seven year old girl to people either condemning or defending a degenerate lifestyle. This thread shows the depth of corruptness in our society.
575 posted on 02/12/2002 8:35:50 AM PST by Don Myers
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To: Don Myers
So then, you believe that "sexual deviants" don't have jobs? Or are youi making the argument that no service techs are sexual deviants?
576 posted on 02/12/2002 8:39:58 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez
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To: cactmh
NO doubt the guy is strange. Something is definatley strange with the whole situation.

I completely agree with you about that. Anyone who collects child pornography is very strange indeed. Allthough in all fairness, the authorities haven't given specifics on the pornography they seized. In today's world of hyper sensitivity, I think anybody that has a Sears catalog in their home with children posing in their Fruit Of The Looms runs a risk of being labeled a pedophile, sexual deviant, child pornographer etc...

I think that in this situation, the confiscated material is probably much more serious than a Sears catalog, yet the police are not very forthcoming on details on this case, so all anyone can really do is speculate.

If you'll excuse me now, I have to go get my tinfoil hat. I dont want to risk having the thought police break down my door if I accidently speculate on the evidence they have on this guy.

577 posted on 02/12/2002 8:40:43 AM PST by JavaTheHutt
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To: He Rides A White Horse
Very well said!!

".......and again, just like the homosexuals (and their use of the word 'homophobia'), the pedophiles, other weirdos, and now these swingers, it's everybody else who isn't normal.

Nah, there's nothing abnormal about having sex with another man. You're "homophobic", there must be something wrong with you, not me.

Pedophiles: "Girls are sexual ripe at age 13. It's normal for me at 40 to want to have sex with her. What are you, some kind of prude or something/"

Swingers: "So what if I like to watch my wife get it from other men. It's normal, I'm a successful businessman, have lots of money.......can't be anything wrong with me!! You're sexually suppressed, what's wrong with you.

It's nonsense flying out of their mouths. So it goes.

578 posted on 02/12/2002 8:51:32 AM PST by cactmh
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To: golitely
The First Amendment to the Constitution was designed to avoid a theocracy from becoming the form of government for the US. While you have every right to believe as you do, and to practice however you wish to practice, those rights belong to those people who do not share your views on morality every bit as much as they belong to you.

As a society we have defined certain boundaries, one being the age of sexual consent. People are not allowed to have sex with minors because as a society, we find this to be repulsive, and have made that action illegal.

There is nothing illegal about "swinging". It does not fit in with my beliefs, but I do not impose my beliefs on others. As a matter of fact, I defend the rights of others to believe differently than I do.

All in all, regardless of the parent's acrions, the criminal here is the person who took the little girl, the parent's sexual preferences did not give him (or her) license to abduct a child.

579 posted on 02/12/2002 8:52:14 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez
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To: Luis Gonzalez
There is nothing illegal about "swinging". It does not fit in with my beliefs, but I do not impose my beliefs on others. As a matter of fact, I defend the rights of others to believe differently than I do.

It is not illegal to own Pit Bulls. If a child in my neighborhood is the victim of an attack by unknown dogs and I own Pit Bulls, I will expect to be questioned by authorities.

Most child abductions that are not because of custody disputes are sexually motivated. That makes any peculiar sexual behavior by the parents quite germane to the investigation.

580 posted on 02/12/2002 9:04:05 AM PST by zevonfan
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To: Luis Gonzalez
"So then, you believe that "sexual deviants" don't have jobs? Or are youi making the argument that no service techs are sexual deviants?"

This was a silly post. Please reread what I posted, think about what I said, and try again if you wish.

581 posted on 02/12/2002 9:10:51 AM PST by Don Myers
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To: tpaine
Good grief. YOU sense evil? You call pete a messed up convict type? -- Pete was out there in Nam, putting his life on the line while you were acting 'tough cop' in front of a bunch of losers.

May I ask what does serving in Nam have to do with this issue??

Those who seem intent on the focus of the defense of the parent's lifestyle, to the point of saying it had nothing at all to do with the child's disappearance have are closing their eyes to a major avenue of investigation.

The most basic questions in an investigation of this type are:

Who had the opportunity? Who had the motive? What are the discrepencies in the statements given by the "witnesses"?

To me, it is more than reasonable to check out those people who were in that house around the time of the disappearance. That these persons are known to be stimulated by by non ordinary sexual activities, could be considered a possible motive. That they were in the house, gives them opportunity.

To deny that the parent's alternative lifestyle could possiblity have contributed to the disappearance of their daughter is to close off a major avenue of investigation.

582 posted on 02/12/2002 9:11:30 AM PST by Selara
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To: Ole Okie;sneakypete;Luis Gonzalez
That evidently evoked no curiosity on the part of the husband or wife. I think the first reaction of any parent would have been to see if the kids were OK.

In a hopefully not vain attempt to get back to the subject at hand, i.e. the missing girl, if their alarm was monitered, the monitering company will know exactly what time the alarm went off, and I'm sure they've shared that info with the police.

If we can't agree on the joys or moral degeneracy of wife-swapping, I think we can all agree that if you wake up in the middle of the night to find a door open and that your alarm was tripped, and you don't check your children (the girl being a sleepwalker, no less) to see if they're OK, that is not the most parentally responsible act, wouldn't you say? Well, you might say, this problem with the alarm was known to happen before, so the dad didn't think anything of it. Then I would say, they were irresponsible for being too lackadaisical about it to get the darn thing fixed.

Whether they were having an orgy or playing chess in their garage is immaterial to their irresponsibility for not checking on their kids.

Having said that, here are a few scenarios to kick around, ranging from the statistically and reasonably most unlikely to the most likely, based on what I've heard so far about this case:

NOT IMPOSSIBLE, BUT EXTREMELY UNLIKELY
1. Total stranger who has seen the girl before outside her home, breaks in and abducts girl.
2. Girl wanders outside on her own and gets lost/hurt/killed by accident and someone is too afraid to say anything.
3. Girl wanders outside and pedophile takes advantage of an opportunity.
4. The parents involve their children in their lifestyle and girl dies in some mysterious way and they concoct break-in story to avoid exposing their lifestyles and the lifestyles of the friends that were with them.

NOT IMPOSSIBLE, BUT MORE LIKELY (BUT NEED MORE INFO)
1. Someone who doesn't know the parents, but who is acquainted with the girl (at school, on the playground, at a friend's house--maybe teenage brother of a friend) breaks in and abducts the girl.
2. Girl died in some unfortunate childhood accident and parents concoct story out of fear of either being accused of killing her, or of having their lifestyle exposed and now it's gone too far to back out of it.
3. Swinging acquaintance has had his eye on girl for awhile and takes a bathroom break from the action and steals the little girl and hides her in the trunk of his car before joining back in the action and then leaves with the girl in his trunk.

POSSIBLE AND MORE LIKELY
1. Relative or friend of the family who is known by the whole family has had his eye on the little girl for awhile and knows when the parents' attention is diverted (but isn't involved in swinging) and takes the opportunity to break in and abduct the girl.
2. The little girl caught the eye of the neighbor when she went to sell Girl Scout cookies. He's got child porn in his house, but he's never done anything to hurt children before. He learns of the parents' lifestyle (which he himself hasn't done before) and mistakenly thinks the parents won't be so "judgemental" about his sexual fantasies. He runs into the mother on her "girl's night out", maybe gets propositioned by the mother to join in one of their parties, so he knows what is going on in the garage that night, and he likely knows that their alarm doesn't work properly and he takes advantage of both situations and breaks in and abducts girl, she dies "accidentally" and he buries her out in the desert.

583 posted on 02/12/2002 9:12:05 AM PST by wimpycat
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To: Petronski
I agree. The fact that the alarm went off, the sliding door was standing open, and dear old dad didn't bother to check on the kids seems to be a huge red light to me.
584 posted on 02/12/2002 9:30:08 AM PST by MEGoody
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To: Don Myers; selara
It has been interesting watching how this thread has gone. It has gone from a post about a missing seven year old girl to people either condemning or defending a degenerate lifestyle. This thread shows the depth of corruptness in our society.

Most here, that YOU claim are 'defending' a lifestyle, are instead objecting to your degenerate characterizations of others.

-- What did dons imaginings of'evil' in Petes character have to do with this thread? -- NOTHING - I defended him by mentioning his more than honorable service.

585 posted on 02/12/2002 9:34:37 AM PST by tpaine
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To: HamiltonJay
I will hold judgement on their parental ability until something far more than talk show and internet allegations occur. If it turns out they are involved in a lifestyle and that lifestyle directly contributed to their childs disappearance I will condemn them. For now though, I'll wait and see.

Thanks. Couldn't have said it better myself.

586 posted on 02/12/2002 9:35:52 AM PST by murdoog
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To: Luis Gonzalez
if we discuss the intimate details of your lovemaking, and your sexual history, I can find plenty of people that may find things that you consider normal to be "perverted"

Actually, not. Sorry, but married couples who swap partners are not following the norms of our society. I am not talking here so much about the details of a married couple's intimacy together. But the fact that they switch partners is weird. Why marry? Why have children when you are going to expose them to such? In fact, these folks are now missing a child, possibly because people following their lifestyle had access to their home. I realize we do not know what happened to Danielle, and this could be proven to be wrong. But it still remains a possibility. And these children have continual exposure to immoral parents.

587 posted on 02/12/2002 9:45:17 AM PST by twigs
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To: jackbill
I have to agree with most here that something is really fishy about this. Who does not double check on thier kids in the night? I know I do if I get up for anything else and certainly I would have if there was an intruder alert or a door unlocked even(even if I had left it unlocked and overlooked it before bed). I don't know about anyone else, but I brought my daughter and son into our bed when I first read about this story more in depth a few nights ago. I just could not get to sleep without them nearby and within reach. They are preschool/toddler age, but even if they were older, I probably would have had to camp out in thier rooms to be able to sleep that night. Saying all that, I just can't understand how someone could not check on thier children for nearly 12 hours, particularly when something suspicious has happened during the night. Something doesn't add up.
588 posted on 02/12/2002 10:10:19 AM PST by glory
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To: tpaine;sneakypete
For the record, Pete was putting his life on the line in 'Nam while I was still in diapers, most likely, but that's beside the point. I don't think he's evil; I just think he's taking the role of Devil's Advocate a little too far and too seriously. I don't care if he's Chesty Puller or Sergeant York, he's got a huge chip on his shoulder where this wife-swapping thing is concerned, and man-woman relations in general. I'm personally willing to call a truce if he is. I would share a foxhole with him, but I wouldn't read his "advice to the lovelorn" column. :-)
589 posted on 02/12/2002 10:19:28 AM PST by wimpycat
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To: Luis Gonzalez
When the guy comes from Sears, my kids aren't likely asleep in their rooms, I wouldn't be off in some other room in an orgy ignoring that he was going into their bedrooms. He certainly would not have access to the kids even if he was perfectly on the up and up. And if one of my kids was missing when the repairman left, I'd know instantly and give the police exact details and the complete truth. The parents were not completely honest about who and what was in their home at their invitation and withholding facts might have cost their child's life. We all have priorities and theirs isn't their children.
590 posted on 02/12/2002 10:39:19 AM PST by FITZ
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To: VA Advogado
Swinging. I thought that was a left over fetish from the 1970s. Gone the way of the leisure suit.

It is, and it has.

591 posted on 02/12/2002 10:39:39 AM PST by Petronski
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To: Luis Gonzalez
If the parents had had any concern for their children's well being, they could have had their bar friends meet them at a motel. They picked up a Mr. Goodbar it seems and exposed their children to him and now most likely have a dead child for it.
592 posted on 02/12/2002 10:41:10 AM PST by FITZ
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To: sneakypete
I think it's pretty interesting that you automatically equate a woman having sex to "whoring herself out". You think sex is dirty,don't you?

Sex with a swinger is...

593 posted on 02/12/2002 10:44:59 AM PST by Petronski
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To: murdoog
Well, it appears that their sexual habits may have been contributory to what happened to the child. This is another example of how our society has been corrupted by the liberals. "It's only about sex" is just as not applicable here as with X42's fiascos. It all about our society and its moral structure. There are consequences for ignoring the rules. The reason they have become rules is because the consequences of certain actions have been observed over a couple of thousand years and people say "oh, that type of behaviour brings bad consequences, let's make a rule that people don't do that". These days though, we "question authority" without researching where that authority developed its rules from.
594 posted on 02/12/2002 10:52:21 AM PST by harrym
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To: harrym
No matter how fun it might be or pleasurable or exciting, sex with people who don't know well can never be made safe. It doesn't matter if you're a streetwalker, a gay man leaving a bar with Jeffrey Dahmer, a woman getting picked up in a bar, or a nice couple wanting an orgy while their kids are asleep, it's not and cannot be made safe.
595 posted on 02/12/2002 11:01:56 AM PST by FITZ
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Comment #596 Removed by Moderator

To: He Rides A White Horse
After reading all your responses, I have only one thing left to say to you.

Matthew 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

These girl's parents will have some answering to do at one point of another to a higher authority. So will you.

597 posted on 02/12/2002 11:14:12 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez
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To: zevonfan
Most child abductions that are not because of custody disputes are sexually motivated. That makes any peculiar sexual behavior by the parents quite germane to the investigation.

I have no problems with the police asking questions as part of their investigation. However what is being espoused here by many is not simply a matter of the investigation, but wholy condemnation based on nothing more than a talk show allegation and internet speculation... this is not acceptable or just. To this point there is not one fact offered up that they were indeed swingers, much less that their swinging (if they do) in any way shape or form contributed to their childs disappearance. I see a lot of people preaching moral authority here without any consideration of the facts of the situation. A lot of mob mentality going on, and very little christian compassion.

If this couple has an open or swinging relationship, that's their perogative. Don't have to agree with it, but not going to brand them unworthy or unfit parents simply because of it, as more than a few here have done. If they were doing things sexually or otherwise that placed their children at risk or neglect, I will damn well label them as bad parents. As of this moment though, there is nothing being offered to prove that at all.. speculation, rumor, talk show host drivel and internet chat rooms. And so far all they are even saying is that they were swingers, with of course no proof that they are, but still they will say it (and it may even be true)... as if that by default somehow automatically intertwined with their childs disappearance. Seems to me so far to be nothing more than a bunch of sensationalism that in no way helps this poor child be found.

598 posted on 02/12/2002 11:14:27 AM PST by HamiltonJay
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To: Don Myers
Many, many people admire him for his sexual "victories."

The only people who were doing that were ones with very very few of their own... lord knows none of us want to live vicariously through Clinton, much less sexually vicariously through the man... lets face it, most of his known "conquests" weren't really the kind you wanted to see in daylight.

599 posted on 02/12/2002 11:16:25 AM PST by HamiltonJay
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Judge not, that ye be not judged.

You do not understand this text. Did he impose a sentence on you ?

You must be rebuked when you support evil.

600 posted on 02/12/2002 11:19:03 AM PST by a_witness
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