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AIR FORCE ADMITS CITY BUZZ WAS A ‘LOW' MOMENT
New York Post ^ | 2/20/02 | http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/41954.htm

Posted on 02/19/2002 11:42:33 PM PST by kattracks

February 20, 2002 -- The Air Force admitted yesterday it goofed big-time when two low-flying F-16 jets jolted sleeping New Yorkers out of their beds earlier this week.

A spokesman from the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) told The Post it is investigating why the pair of jets buzzed Manhattan as they were making their way back to Atlantic City after a regular patrol.

"The timing and location in this instance was poorly coordinated," said Maj. Donald Arias, a spokesman for the First Air Force/Continental U.S. NORAD Region based in Florida.

"While returning from a CAP mission [Combat Air Patrol], two F-16 jets fighters dropped down to a low altitude before returning to their base in Atlantic City," he added.

"They should not have been at that precise location at that particular time."

Although stating the incident was still under investigation, Arias said the pilots did not break any regulations.

The thunderous flyover left buildings shaking and windows rattling at about 4:30 on Monday morning.

"I'm starting to wonder if it was two pilots joy riding," said one Manhattan resident who was awoken by the jets.

"I appreciate their protecting the city, but I just hope they remember that ‘the city that never sleeps' isn't meant to be taken literally."

They are temporarily based at the Air National Guard 177th Fighter Wing in Atlantic City, N.J.

Arias said the planes were not flying at Mach speed - about 750 mph - which is breaking the sound barrier.

The F-16's maximum speed is about 1,300 mph.

Air patrol have been securing the skies over New York and Washington, D.C., since the terror attacks of Sept. 11.



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1 posted on 02/19/2002 11:42:33 PM PST by kattracks
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To: kattracks
.             
They should live Europe/Germany. Jets buzzing all over the place.

Nothing like an F-15 screaming over your hilltop camp hill in the morning.

We won't get into what a B-52, flying map of map-of-earth,

does to your shorts the first time you get buzzed.



2 posted on 02/20/2002 12:03:59 AM PST by Rain-maker
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To: kattracks
F16s protecting our skies sounds like a warm a fuzzy noise to me.
3 posted on 02/20/2002 12:04:14 AM PST by fleur-de-lis
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To: kattracks
They're flyboys. All that they'll get is a light wrist-slapping, accompanied by a stern warning, delivered with a stifled snicker and a knowing wink.
4 posted on 02/20/2002 12:06:44 AM PST by petuniasevan
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To: fleur-de-lis
I agree. Back in St. Louis we'd hear Harriers, Phantoms, Hornets and Eagles all the time. Plus the big MAC aircraft from Scott AFB, on top of all the traffic to and from Lambert, Bethalto, Parks, etc. You can tell what most are just by sound. Wonderful sound.
5 posted on 02/20/2002 12:09:34 AM PST by piasa
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To: kattracks
A spokesman from the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) told The Post it is investigating why the pair of jets buzzed Manhattan as they were making their way back to Atlantic City after a regular patrol.

Better than Hitler's V2's and buzz bombs that Hitler struck London with in 1943.

Do these people know that we are at WAR? A few USAF air force pilots stressed out and tired, yeah, maybe they want to... well let their hair down. Up here by the Indian Point nuclear plant, there are dozens of sorties going on every day. AndI'm glad our United States military is doing their job in protecting the United States of America! One bad guy hitting a nuke plant's stock pile will cause more difficulties for the downstream populace in Manhattan, NY than a sonic boom.

Quite frankly, I'm really getting fed-the f_ucking pissers and moaners complaining about about "collateral damage" and all this other horse-sh!t.

If you don't like it, make a difference, and ENLIST! Fight for your country and stop whimpering, complaining and moaning!

Consider the alternatives... a few F16s overhead or a bunch of Arab-speaking whackos flting a few more planes, killing more Americans.

Wake up America. Stop your whining!

6 posted on 02/20/2002 12:10:14 AM PST by Cobra64
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To: Rain-maker
How about what a B-52 does, when badly piloted by a top-brass visiting general who last flew them 20 years previously?

First, he ignored my frantic signals to STAY PUT while my assistant pulled the chocks. Nearly ran him over.
He PO'd the tower by butting in front of a KC-135 who had clearance,
then he started his takeoff roll so slowly we were all wincing in anticipation of a disaster.

I thought he'd never lift clear, and the gear took the tops off the trees past the end of the runway.

7 posted on 02/20/2002 12:15:11 AM PST by petuniasevan
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To: Rain-maker
Hey Rain, I thought I was one of the few guys that believes in our military kicking ass at the enemy and also allowed to have some fun with civilian "puffs."
8 posted on 02/20/2002 12:31:29 AM PST by Cobra64
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To: petuniasevan
LOL...a day to turn one's hair grey.

Some of them generals need forced retirement.

9 posted on 02/20/2002 12:43:16 AM PST by Rain-maker
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To: Rain-maker
Jet Noise - The Sound of Freedom
10 posted on 02/20/2002 2:06:55 AM PST by scottinoc
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To: kattracks
"I feel the need, the need for speed!"

"Godda__it, Maverick, why did you buzz that Tower?"

-Top Gun, 1985.


11 posted on 02/20/2002 2:30:33 AM PST by Madiuq
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To: kattracks
I appreciate their protecting the city, but I just hope they remember that ‘the city that never sleeps' isn't meant to be taken literally."

Say what? complaining about the war on terror already? Some people really take things for granted.

12 posted on 02/20/2002 2:36:09 AM PST by lavaroise
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To: kattracks
" "I appreciate their protecting the city, but I just hope they remember that ‘the city that never sleeps' isn't meant to be taken literally." "

No matter what time it was he should be DAMN glad it was our jets over his head!

13 posted on 02/20/2002 2:50:24 AM PST by Kakaze
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To: kattracks
I can still remember jets flying low up the Tittabawassee River near Midland, Michigan, making mock attacks on Dow Chemical Company or the company spillway, sonic booms following them as they screamed past.

I was between five and eight when these flights happened and I always thought it was great, standing on the bank of the river as they passed not more than about 200 feet away.

14 posted on 02/20/2002 3:33:32 AM PST by BlueLancer
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To: petuniasevan
That's fine with me.
15 posted on 02/20/2002 3:41:02 AM PST by Cannon6
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Comment #16 Removed by Moderator

To: Rain-maker
We won't get into what a B-52, flying map of map-of-earth,...

Methinks it's Nap of the Earth (NOE).

17 posted on 02/20/2002 8:05:40 AM PST by Junior
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To: kattracks
"Sorry, Goose, but it's time to buzz the skyline..."

There will probably be no repercussions. Both SecDef and POTUS flew fighter jets, and they probably buzzed a few control towers and other stuff in their day...

18 posted on 02/20/2002 8:37:40 AM PST by hchutch
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To: Poohbah
Just wondering... how many free drinks will those pilots get for that little high-speed pass. ;)

The next question: Will someone do a supersonic pass?

19 posted on 02/20/2002 8:41:00 AM PST by hchutch
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To: kattracks
Are the New Yawkers SURE it was OUR airplanes???
20 posted on 02/20/2002 8:50:32 AM PST by null and void
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To: hchutch
The Commanding General of the Third Marine Air Wing, back in the salad days of Marine Air, when they were HQ'd in El Toro, put out a little note to his Hornet & Phantom drivers:

If you even THINK about going supersonic over Garden Grove, I will have you drawn, quartered, boiled in oil, and anything else unpleasant I can think of.

Garden Grove is the home of Reverend Robert Schuller's Crystal Cathedral, a spectacular all-glass-faced church. One sonic boom, and it becomes the Open-Air Cathedral :o)

21 posted on 02/20/2002 9:12:39 AM PST by Poohbah
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To: Poohbah
I see.

How far do they let the buzzing go before they start slapping wrists?

22 posted on 02/20/2002 9:37:00 AM PST by hchutch
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To: Rain-maker
I was stationed at Hahn and Spangdahlem ABs when they were F-4 bases. Man, they were loud! The F-15's at Bitburg were like a whisper compared to those 'Wild Weasels'.
23 posted on 02/20/2002 9:42:31 AM PST by Night Hides Not
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To: hchutch
Generally, the rule is that you don't embarrass your seniors.

Low-level passes in the wee hours of the morning are generally a very BAD idea, as it will probably wake some folks up, and most people get downright CRANKY when roused from a sound sleep for no good reason.

To quote Robert Heinlein's The Notebooks of Lazarus Long:

Waking a sleeping man unnecessarily shouldn't be a capital crime. For a first offense, that is.

24 posted on 02/20/2002 9:45:45 AM PST by Poohbah
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To: Junior
Methinks it's Nap of the Earth (NOE).

While you guys debate the terminology, I'll share a story.

In the mid-seventies, while doing business in Kansas, I often found myself driving through the Flint Hills and Chatuaqua regions of southern Kansas on remote highways. A number of times I was jolted to the point of "fouling my pampers" by the instantaneous appearance of B-52s at a hundred feet elevation above my car followed by the boom of the engines. Working on their terrain hugging systems in remote areas, we that traveled the lonesome got some startling suprises.

The size, sound and suddenness of the appearance was truely a stunner. The heart rate went way up for sometime thereafter, I can assure you.

25 posted on 02/20/2002 9:48:18 AM PST by KC Burke
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To: KC Burke
BUFFs at low level...

Once upon a time, I was at MCAS Beaufort during an Anti-Air Warfare Exercise, or AAWEX. This AAWEX featured B-52s, and one made a bomb run on my squadron's hangar.

I happened to be on the roof as part of a working party, and decided to do the Last Great Act Of Defiance as the BUFF easily evades a (very late) Smoky SAM shot.

Didja know that the BUFF can record video from its forward-looking TV camera?

Didja know that we all got yanked into the Sergeant Major's office to be asked, "Which one of you peckerheads gave the one-finger salute to the BUFF yesterday? The Group CO wants a chat with the culprit."

26 posted on 02/20/2002 9:54:36 AM PST by Poohbah
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To: Poohbah
You are lucky you didn't get blown off or have the roof bounce you off due to negative air rebound. Those hanger roofs can be pretty lightly loaded by their dead-load only and react like a empty F-350 Ford on a bumpy road. I've built a few and been on-top on windy days, LOL.
27 posted on 02/20/2002 9:58:54 AM PST by KC Burke
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To: Poohbah
ROFLMAOSMMD.

I'm surprised that could get someone in trouble...

28 posted on 02/20/2002 10:00:21 AM PST by hchutch
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To: hchutch
The Squadron Sergeant Major wasn't overly amused (at least, he wasn't amused in public :o), but the Group CO thought it was a hoot.

I was already infamous enough (thanks to my work running a "Red Cell" at Beaufort) that the Group Sergeant Major said, "Shoulda figured it was you."

29 posted on 02/20/2002 10:04:23 AM PST by Poohbah
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To: KC Burke
It was a wee bit of an adventure :o)
30 posted on 02/20/2002 10:05:32 AM PST by Poohbah
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To: kattracks
I love the sound of freedom. Until recently, I lived and worked very close to the Portland (Oregon) Air National Guard Base. I don't care if I was sleeping, running, working or eating, I loved the sight and sound of a couple of F-15s taking off on their training runs. Perhaps New Yorkers will learn to appreciate the sound.
31 posted on 02/20/2002 10:08:24 AM PST by arm958
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To: Poohbah
The Squadron Sergeant Major

The Air Force doesn't have Sergeant Majors. It does have Chief Master Sergeants. I've known a few and most of'em are damned fine Americans.

32 posted on 02/20/2002 10:10:27 AM PST by arm958
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To: KC Burke
The size, sound and suddenness of the appearance was truely a stunner. The heart rate went way up for sometime thereafter, I can assure you.

You will be equally pleased to know that your little metal car made one damn fine radar target for a little gunnery practice. (Didn't you notice the tail cannon were tracking you?)

33 posted on 02/20/2002 10:12:19 AM PST by been_lurking
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To: petuniasevan
How about what a B-52 does, when badly piloted by a top-brass visiting general who last flew them 20 years previously?

Reminds me of the hot dog B-52 pilot at Fairchild AFB a few years ago. During a ceremonial fly-by, he banked a little too hard and plowed into the ground. He killed all the crew on board and could have killed many more on the ground. After the fact, some of his fellow pilots noted that he was known for pushing the envelope a little too far.

34 posted on 02/20/2002 10:17:34 AM PST by arm958
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To: arm958
I wasn't in the Air Farce--I was a Marine.
35 posted on 02/20/2002 10:17:49 AM PST by Poohbah
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To: petuniasevan
How about what a B-52 does, when badly piloted by a top-brass visiting general who last flew them 20 years previously?

Reminds me of the hot dog B-52 pilot at Fairchild AFB a few years ago. During a ceremonial fly-by, he banked a little too hard and plowed into the ground. He killed all the crew on board and could have killed many more on the ground. After the fact, some of his fellow pilots noted that he was known for pushing the envelope a little too far.

36 posted on 02/20/2002 10:18:13 AM PST by arm958
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To: COB1;Cedar Dave;harpseal,Travis McGee,Squantos,sneakypete,Chapita
Come to West Texas and I will take you'll down to the canyon lands, where you can sit on top of a mesa and watch the BUFF's fly below you.

Or we can journey over to NM and watch the B-1bs buzz drilling rigs at derrick height.

Once in the bootheel of Missouri, I was out checking cotton in the middle of a field, this god-awful roaring came over shaking the earth and blowing the cotton down. I was all elbows and knees trying to dig a hole to hide in, just about the time I recovered it happened again. It was B-58s making a mock bomb run on St. Louis, while being chased by THUDs. It was even more fun the next day, up in a Cessana at 3,000 ft and two miles away watching the action.

37 posted on 02/20/2002 10:19:08 AM PST by razorback-bert
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To: razorback-bert
I occasionally get to watch the stealth bombers fly out of Knobnoster (Whiteman) and find their flights to be very unique. For those that haven't seen them at low altitude and in person, the fly-by-wire technology and the wierd shape make them appear like nothing else in flight. It is almost like they aren't subject to the laws of aerodynamics, they twist, turn and bank in wierd relation to their forward flight in a manner to give them a very unreal aspect when manauvering for take-offs and landings. Its almost like watching a Matrix movie.
38 posted on 02/20/2002 10:26:37 AM PST by KC Burke
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To: Cobra64
having a f-16 flying over would make me sleep like a baby at night.
39 posted on 02/20/2002 10:27:11 AM PST by angcat
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To: angcat
In the NJ Pine Barrens you can regularly see the A-10's coming in low. Took me a while to figure out what that zipper noise was at first.....it's cannon.
40 posted on 02/20/2002 10:31:29 AM PST by Focault's Pendulum
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To: Poohbah
I wasn't in the Air Farce--I was a Marine

You can always count on the Marines to knock their fellow service members. Let's see, what have the Marines done lately? Well, they occupied an airfield and an embassy in Afghanistan that had been previously secured by the U.S. Army. As for Marine Corps Air power factoring into the defeat of the Taliban in Afghanistan, it's about 70% Air Force, 28% Navy and maybe 2% Marines to make them feel good.

I do not think that the devastatingly lethal and effective U.S. Air Force appreciates being referred to as the Air Farce. Grow up.

41 posted on 02/20/2002 10:32:40 AM PST by arm958
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To: razorback-bert
He he he..... were CAP'd up here right now too. They make lot's of noise and I LIKE IT ! Sound of Freedom is a good thing IMHO.........Stay Safe !
42 posted on 02/20/2002 10:38:39 AM PST by Squantos
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To: Squantos
Wish I heard that sound more often. I love those jets... :)
43 posted on 02/20/2002 10:40:17 AM PST by hchutch
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To: Poohbah
wasn't in the Air Farce Force--I was a Marine. ?!?!?!?!?

Ohhhhh yer gonna get whacked for that was comment Pooh. Drop and give me twenty !.... No one ever ....."was"..... a Marine.......

Stay Safe !

44 posted on 02/20/2002 10:44:53 AM PST by Squantos
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To: hchutch
After 26 years in the Air Force the sound is normal for me and I understand what it means to America as most here do also. I do miss the smell of JP4 though :o)

Stay Safe !

45 posted on 02/20/2002 10:48:17 AM PST by Squantos
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To: Squantos
You want noise, be here when the B-27s,17s, 26s, 25s and the B-29 are flying over.

Whenever this occurs here, I wonder what it was like in Germany during WWII, when hundreds were flying over. They have a deeper meaner low pitched rumble, slowly growing in volume as they approach.

46 posted on 02/20/2002 10:49:28 AM PST by razorback-bert
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To: razorback-bert
Whenever this occurs here, I wonder what it was like in Germany during WWII, when hundreds were flying over. They have a deeper meaner low pitched rumble, slowly growing in volume as they approach.

I swure wouldn't have wanted to be on the receiving end of that. Kinda like being in Hell.

47 posted on 02/20/2002 10:54:06 AM PST by arm958
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To: razorback-bert
Oh yeah that's right you have the CAF down there don't ya.......I'm gonna have to road trip to the next air show ! One thing I miss about service days is the Air Shows..........and WAF's :o)

Stay Safe !

48 posted on 02/20/2002 10:55:19 AM PST by Squantos
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To: Squantos
I'm in recovery. Jarheads Anonymous, the 12-step program for Marines now on civvy street.

Hi, my name's Poohbah, and I'm a Jarhead!

HI, POOHBAH!

49 posted on 02/20/2002 11:11:46 AM PST by Poohbah
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To: arm958
I don't CARE what the Air Farce thinks, pal.
50 posted on 02/20/2002 11:13:56 AM PST by Poohbah
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