Now That Bush Has Sold Us Out... What are we going to do about it? (vanity)

[Michael2001]

Well I'm mad and I'm angry, and maybe that's why I can't think of an appropriate response. While all of us were prasing him for how he was dealing with the war on terror, Bush passes this Amnesty Bill, something that not even the sneaky Bill Clinton would do. This is one of the worse Bills to pass through Congress, it will hurt us in many ways, and ten years from now we will still be feeling it's effects.

Bush has, without a doubt in my mind, sold us out for the Hispanic vote. He sold us out because he can take our vote for granted (who will we vote for Al Gore?). Is he wrong? What do we do when the Republicans stop looking out for our interests? Is it time for a new party, or do we work within the party and try to root out the Republicans In Name Only (of which there are many)?

[BillofRights]

Yep. The two party system is a complete disaster. Maybe we should switch to a three party. Or four party. Five or six would even be better. No parties would be best. Now convince the majority (or even a significant percentage) of the Democrat voters to switch to another party and we'll have it made in the shade.

It's not any 1-, 2-, or 3-Party system that is the disaster. The disaster is that the citizens of this country allow the politicians to desecrate the Constitution and abuse their power in doing so. Not only do "we the people" allow it, but most either don't care, don't recognize it, or make excuses for it. That's the disaster!

[tallhappy]

We just had a swift kick in the head (and the nuts). Eight long disgusting years of it. You can have it. I'm not about to help re-elect Clinton/Gore.

Not enough people understand or want to admit that's what they are doing.

Combined with that is the mistaken notion that there is no difference between the two.

They mistake not as big a difference as they'd like with no difference.

Also, the ultra-cynical and nihilistic mind set and worldview instilled by the liberal influence that permeates everything is at play in causing people to come to the "they're all the same" attitude.

Liberal thought can affect people who do not buy in to the liberal political agenda in negative ways.

[Jefferson Adams]

And yes, they have also "learned" something that they have really always known -- that Republican Party = Democratic Party -- albeit with a few issue/policy exceptions to make people believe that there are real differences. With either Party in power, the size, scope, and reach of the federal government continues to grow! Period!

THAT is the crux of the bisquit. And unless and until the masses of sheep on *both* "sides" realize it, they will continue to pander to the endless Good Cop / Bad Cop illusion being foisted upon them by Socialist Party D and Socialist Party R.

In addition, it's no longer "liberals" vs. "conservatives." The real contest, right now, today, is Big Government/Business and Globalism vs. Freedom, the Constitution and the man in the street.

Wake up, people - the D vs R shell game is an illusion.

[BeAChooser]

I am reporting that a large FRaction of Republicans act just like "Democrats" -- because that is what they are -- or like "libertarians" which, sadly, is effectively the same thing.

I'm a Republican. I have been all my life. But you are wrong if you think democRATS and libertarians are effectively the same thing. There is considerable difference. That is just a dishonest tactic to scare conservatives away from voting 3rd party if need be.

Furthermore, you didn't answer my question. Do you think most of the Republican voters want Republicans to act like democRATS when it comes to upholding the law? I say no and I'm willing to put it to the test by having the RNC ask its membership if they are willing to ignore the laws if it will help them regain the Senate and keep control of the House and Presidency. Are you willing to abide by the answer?

And I am suggesting that the way you are promoting as the only way to rid the Repubican Party of "DemocRATs" and other RINOs -- and to set it apart FRom the "DemocRATs" -- will throw out the baby with the bath water and will deliver US into the hands of the totalitarians.

Well that's a rather sad indictment of our judicial system and the American people. So you think that investigating and prosecuting cases where democRATS in the last 8 years clearly violated serious laws would deliver us into the hands of totalitarians? You think that exposing people in the Republican party that YOU suggested might have even done WORSE than commit MURDER and TREASON (like the democRATS did) would be bad for the "Conservative Movement". I guess you'd rather have such corrupt and evil people continue to REPRESENT us ... as long as a REPUBLICAN is at the helm.

And you still haven't answered the question. Why should we trust a party and a leader who would KNOWINGLY help coverup crimes as serious as MASS MURDER and TREASON by members of the other party? Are you going to run away from this question like Bush/Ashcroft are running from the DNC crimes?

Are you a DNC plant?

Yeah. My question sure sounds like it would come from a DNC plant. Good argument.

[ruoflaw]

Where were you when clinton and gore forced the INS to open the "gates" so that a flood of immigrants could become Americans overnight?....(many were criminals of the worst kind)...clinton and gore did it so all those people would go to the polls and vote for them to stay in office... clinton wouldn't even allow any of these people to be checked out and murderers and perverts are now Americans and guess what??? They Know How To Vote!

[Jim Robinson]

That's the real problem. How are you going to convince the brainwashed dependent populace that independence, individualism and freedom is in their best interest? If we had more parties, how would it be any different? Wouldn't the dependent masses continue to huddle in the most secure liberal parties? Wouldn't the Libertians, Reformers, Christian Right, right-wing conservatives, et al, still be outnumbered, and wouldn't this setup conditions for a complete socialist takeover?

[stands2reason]

Oh, but don't you see The Grand Plan? Once we get Hillary for eight years, it'll be so horrible that the sheeple wake up, resist their marxist public education, turn off their network news, throw away their newspapers and rise, en masse, shouting, "We were wrong! We were fooled! Please forgive us, O Pat Buchanan! Please be our president!" Hey, it's only for eight years, twelve, tops! When Pat is elected, you'll get your guns back! He'll give you back your land, and your job, too!

[christine]

awesome! :)

[BillofRights]

Your points are well-taken and your questions are fair. However, I believe that the complete socialist takeover, of which you speak, is in-progress and on schedule. Freedom is already lost, however, the illusion of freedom remains for many. Anyone or any entity who actually posed a legitimate threat to our 2-headed-one-party power monopoly would become "dog food" in a nano-second.

[Jim Robinson]

Yes, perhaps I should've said totalitarian takeover.

[rintense]

You are correct, Jim. More political parties won't solve anything. It serves to divide a core base of political idea. Look at New Zealand for example. Between 4-6 major political parties... and the most liberal hag is in charge.

[stands2reason]

I'm thinking this is exactly the stimulus leftists needed. I'm actually considering putting on a mental condom and popping into DU to see how they're enjoying this. They loove the all-or-nothing people.

[wingnuts'nbolts]

As I understand it this legislation extends the time that immigrants have to get legal. It seems the INS couldn't do the necessary paper work in a timely fashion which put many in jeopardy of deportation when they were following the law. I do not understand it to give blanket amnesty to illegal aliens.

[christine]

well said, BaC!

[ruoflaw]

well, over our history, there have been different parties: the Copperheads, the Know Nothings are just two examples but this never lasts long and people go back to the two party system....or they can can run as a independent. Our government will only be as good as the people... because it is of the people and for the people and it is up to the people to keep aware of what is going on...this site helps us keep aware...there will always be those that don't pay attention because they don't care until something happens that effects them...most of us learn sooner or later.

[LarryLied]

How are you going to convince the brainwashed dependent populace that independence, individualism and freedom is in their best interest?

That is the question. I naively thought in 1964 almost everyone would celebrate the end of the Democrat Party poliboro-like lock on the House. That sure didn't happen. Shortly after, I joined the Alliance for the Separation of School and State. Again, I naively thought everyone would endorse the freedom to sent their kids to any school they wished. The reaction was the opposite, it was emotional and hostile. Why did I hate teachers? Why did I hate public school? Why was I so destructive?

The benefits of freedom do, as you mention, have to be sold to people. And it isn't an easy sell.

[shield]

My initial reaction is to trust President Bush.

After 911...you've got to be kidding, right?

[Joe Hadenuf]

In addition, it's no longer "liberals" vs. "conservatives." The real contest, right now, today, is Big Government/Business and Globalism vs. Freedom, the Constitution and the man in the street.

Wake up, people - the D vs R shell game is an illusion.

This man on the street, agrees with that. The tit for tat back and forth crap from the two beltway parties has grown extremely tiresome.

One thing I am sure of, is that both of the beltway parties are working towards the incremental destruction of our freedoms our constitution and our sovereignty.

[christine]

In addition, it's no longer "liberals" vs. "conservatives." The real contest, right now, today, is Big Government/Business and Globalism vs. Freedom, the Constitution and the man in the street.

agree completely!

[christine]

One thing I am sure of, is that both of the beltway parties are working towards the incremental destruction of our freedoms our constitution and our sovereignty.

yep! i'm sure of that too!