Details unfold in FBI mix-up

The Baltimore Sun ^ | March 13, 2002 | Gail Gibson

[Lloyd227]

FBI agents involved in the mistaken traffic stop and shooting of an unarmed Pasadena man March 1 had a photograph of the actual bank robbery suspect they sought and earlier that day had discovered that an air pistol, not a handgun, apparently was used in the holdup, court records show.

Those details, contained in an FBI affidavit in the bank robbery case, could play a central role in the investigations into the shooting of Joseph C. Schultz, as authorities examine how much federal agents knew about the real suspect they were tracking and how dangerous they thought he was.

[Bob J]

Radio Free Republic Presents

The Banana Republican Hour

With your host Luis Gonzalez

This week’s guest:

Brothers to the Rescue founder, José Basulto

---

On February 24, 1996, three light aircraft left Miami on a routine flight. Their missions, to search the waters off the Florida Coast for rafters trying to reach the US shores, and bring them help by guiding the US Coast Guard to their location. That day in February, only one plane would return to its home base in Miami.

Tune in to Radio FreeRepublic this Thursday, March 14, at 9 PM EST, and listen to the actual sounds of a terrorist in action, murdering unarmed American citizens.

Sr. José Basulto, founder of Brothers to the Rescue and pilot of the surviving Cessna, will shed light on the events of that day, and detail how the Clinton administration withheld advanced knowledge of the attack from the humanitarian volunteer group, helping seal the fate of these four courageous flyers.

Radio FreeRepublic, fearless talk radio.

Click on Banner to hear broadcast of Show Thursday, March 14, at 9PM EST/6PM PST


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[Uncle Bill]

BTTT

[Donald Stone]

Sounds like it has already vaporized !!!!!

Our super secret FBI has struck again.

No ethics, no integrity, no accountability !!!!!!

[Donald Stone]

It would be nice if someone could find & post this affidavit.

Those details, contained in an FBI affidavit in the bank robbery case, could play a central role in the investigations into the shooting of Joseph C. Schultz, as authorities examine how much federal agents knew about the real suspect they were tracking and how dangerous they thought he was.

[Donald Stone]

Still doesn't answer the question, if Blottenberg Jr. was considered armed and dangerous why did the FBI approach the victims car leaving the safety and protection of their vehicle and not demand that the victims exit their car.

"In general terms, anytime anyone robs a bank, and a gun is displayed, they're considered armed and dangerous," said Special Agent Peter A. Gulotta Jr., who said that in assessing how risky a capture might be, agents also consider a suspect's criminal history.

[sneakypete]

The shooting was a deliberate,premediated , conscious act by the agent.

Sorry,but I ain't buying that. It was the result of a dumb ass being allowed to become a Feeb,and another Feeb being stupid enough to allow him to carry a rifle. This idiot was approaching a car from the rear with the safety off and his finger on the trigger. I'm convinced it was a accidental shooting.

[sneakypete]

He's probably black.

I doubt it. Not with a name like "Blottenberger".

What else can I think if the FEEBS aren't releasing a mug shot???

He probably looks nothing like the young man who was shot,and the Feebs don't want "civilians" making judgements on their abilities. Or lack of abilities.

[FreedomPoster]

I'm convinced it was a accidental shooting.

Sorry, in my worldview, there's no such thing as an "accidental shooting". This strikes me as, at best, a negligent discharge, and at worst, a totally inappropriate intentional discharge that should be prosecuted as an attempted homicide.

[coloradan]

Out of 80 million gun owners owning 200 million guns, only a tiny minority are criminal, and of those, a majority who are caught are prosecuted and incarcerated. Nevertheless, liberals would seek to deny gun ownership to everybody because of the actions of this minority.

This situation is completely different with the FBI:

An FBI agent murders a woman nursing her baby, and charges against him are dropped, and he is promoted. Agents repeatedly lied at the trials of the survivors, but none are prosecuted for perjury.

In Waco, the FBI at worst murdered 80 people in cold blood, and at best, gassed them to incapacity, and then denied fire trucks from putting out the fire that killed them. Not a single one faced any criminal charges for any part of the event.

The FBI was ordered to surrender documents pertaining to the defense of OKC bombing suspects McVeigh and Nichols... for some reason, some 3,000 pages of such evidence was withheld, against the law, and in violation of the court order and in violation of due process for the defendents. No agent faces any criminal charges for this mistake.

While in charge of investigating the crash of TWA 800, FBI agent-in-charge James Kallstrom took a souvenier flag from the wreckage and gave it to a family member of one of the victims, despite a law prohibiting souvenier collection from crashes. Kallstrom was not prosecuted. But when investigative journalist James Sanders obtained samples of seat fabric for testing (from one within the investigation who had lost faith in it) he was prosecuted by the FBI under the anti-souveneir-collecting law for pilfering wreckage, even though the sample was obtained for investigative purposes, unlike the one taken by Kallstrom.

Now we have a case in which FBI agents have shot an innocent, unarmed person, refused the person medical care, and now is trying to suppress investigation of the shooting.

There are other similar cases not summarized here. Together, they paint a disturbing pattern that FBI agents as a rule, not the exception, are unaccountable and operate above the law. If these cases don't convince you something with the FBI is seriously wrong, just what would it take?

[sneakypete]

, there's no such thing as an "accidental shooting". This strikes me as, at best, a negligent discharge,

They are the same thing.

[FreedomPoster]

I beg to differ; the words mean different things.

ac·ci·dent   Pronunciation Key  (ks-dnt, -dnt)
n.

1. 1. An unexpected and undesirable event, especially one resulting in damage or harm: car accidents on icy roads.
   2. An unforeseen incident: A series of happy accidents led to his promotion.
   3. An instance of involuntary urination or defecation in one's clothing.
2. Lack of intention; chance: ran into an old friend by accident.
3. Logic. A circumstance or attribute that is not essential to the nature of something.

neg·li·gent   Pronunciation Key  (ngl-jnt)
adj.

1. Characterized by or inclined to neglect, especially habitually.
2. Characterized by careless ease or informality; casual.
3. Law. Guilty of negligence.

Summarizing, "accident" implies something that was unforeseen or unavoidable. This event was neither.

[backhoe]

Triple A, I've always been partial to these:

And yes, that's the FN Model D variant- quick-change barrel, among other improvements....

[MarkWar]

>Together, they paint a disturbing pattern that FBI agents as a rule, not the exception, are unaccountable and operate above the law. I

[sighs] No, you idiot, five cases (or ten or fifteen) out of the lives and careers of thousands does not paint a pattern that is a rule rather than exceptions. It simply enumerates exceptions.

And, for what it's worth, your little activist "summary" completely ignores the fact that every law enforcement agency has multiple internal/external mechanisms for dealing with agents who violate policy. And every day these mechanisms are enforced and agents are disciplined in one way or another. (Far from being "above the law," any officer who fires a weapon at any time must undergo very extensive review and evaluation of his actions.)

Just because our law enforcement agencies don't call up you personally every time they undertake an internal investigation, and just because they don't CC: you personally with all the memos and data on every case, that doesn't mean there's a conspiracy going on. (Although it might mean that nobody likes you...)

Mark W.

[coloradan]

... every law enforcement agency has multiple internal/external mechanisms for dealing with agents who violate policy. And every day these mechanisms are enforced and agents are disciplined in one way or another. (Far from being "above the law," any officer who fires a weapon at any time must undergo very extensive review and evaluation of his actions.)

The mechanism for dealing with Lon Horiuchi was to lie on the stand for him, to move the case against him to federal court, and move to drop it because he was on duty (and therefore presumptively incapable of committing a crime), and promote him to a sniper team leader at Waco. These facts tend to indicate his shooting of Vicki Weaver did not violate FBI policy - they encapuslated FBI policy.

Far from being "just one of five, ten, or fifteen" cases like this out of thousands, the way this one single case was handled testifies to great disease within the FBI.

[Lloyd227]

"(Although it might mean that nobody likes you...)"

[Lloyd227]

"...Far from being "just one of five, ten, or fifteen" cases like this out of thousands, the way this one single case was handled testifies to great disease within the FBI."

[Virginia-American]

But many of the people who hang out in these constant threads, day after day, (the activists) have strange brain problems. They're not upset with specific incidents. They're upset with the entire concept of law enforcement.

Post links to a few examples, please.

[Virginia-American]

. (Far from being "above the law," any officer who fires a weapon at any time must undergo very extensive review and evaluation of his actions.)

I'm sure he gets lots and lots of counseling and social work. The problem is, a jury needs to review these cases as well, lest we get the impression that these agencies aren't accountable to their peers and paymasters. Trial by bureaucrat doesn't quite cut it.