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FBI agents said to oppose inquiry (shooting of Eagle Scout in Maryland)
Baltimore Sun ^ | March 15, 2002 | Gail Gibson

Posted on 03/15/2002 6:22:07 AM PST by Mulder

Edited on 09/03/2002 4:50:06 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

Two senior agents from the FBI's Baltimore office told a private detective yesterday that the mistaken shooting of an unarmed Pasadena man likely would be ruled a "clean shoot," and discouraged him from looking into the case further, the investigator said in an interview. Dudley F.B. "Butch" Hodgson, a former FBI agent who has been retained by the shooting victim's lawyers, said he was told by one of the agents: "There's no middle ground in this thing. You're either with us or against us."


(Excerpt) Read more at sunspot.net ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Government; News/Current Events; US: Maryland
KEYWORDS: banglist; donutwatch; fbi; gun; policestate
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To: Harrison Bergeron
Thanks for the info. I want FiBi's held to the same f accountability I would if I'd had an AD or acted irresponsibly during the conduct of my duties. When I worked as a deputy sheriff I was subject to firing or even possible prosecution for even the smallest of errors when it came to alledged "accidents"..........

If this agent screwed up and is not man enough to step up and take his medicine for such then he in no way qualifies to enforce laws upon others.............

Stay Safe !

41 posted on 03/15/2002 8:38:37 AM PST by Squantos
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To: Abundy
They are definately due for retirement (not killing, just get them out of the FBI)

Actually I am not thrilled that by retiring from the civil service they will continue to collect tax dollars. However, it has yet to be shown that they will be removed from their jobs. The Braga needs to face criminal charges. If he was not the one who decided to forego Felony stop procedures and protocols then the agent who made that decision should also face trial. In short heads should roll administratively at the minimum.

The bigger problem is the us versus them attitude where the them is anyone not a part of the FBI. When I was discussing rule .308 I was discussing the logical consequence of their actions and attitude. These logical consequences could be prevented by prompt and severe mangerial action within the FBI and/or by action from the criminal justice system. however, if this attitude and the actions that allegedly flowed from this attitude are not abated and promptly then the consequences will happen as surely as the tide rises and falls.

In this particular case there is a litany of misbehavior by FBI agents. It starts with questionable behavior in even stopping the car they stopped. It continues with failure to use felony stop procedures. It continues with allegations that the agents denied prompt medical assistance to the injured man. It is exacerbated by the celebration (agin alleged not admitted yet) after the shoot. Now we are seeing other agents attempting to intimidate an independant investigator who is himself a former FBI agent. What is next a midnight raid and arrest of the yound woman who was also in the car? Maybe she will just disappear that would be a very helpful coincidence wouldn't it. Maybe those who critique the FBI procedures in this case need some friendly persuasion from some of the other agents of this office?

They have started down this road and what I pointed out is where this road leads. The consequences I described are but some of the many. No, I was not calling for any physical harm to anyone. I was merely pointing out what we may expect if things are not changed significantly and soon. The next move is up to the FBI I am hoping they will not just sweep the board off the table.

Stay well - Stay saf e- Stay armed - Yorktown

42 posted on 03/15/2002 8:52:11 AM PST by harpseal
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To: Harrison Bergeron
This happened in the back yard of about 20,000 Washington insiders. Pasadena might be a blue collar bedroom community halfway between Baltimore and Annapolis, but it's surrounded with enough million dollar waterfront properties that you have more than just a couple of highly placed civil servants and national media wheels living in the area thinking that this could have been their kid shot in the face.

Perhaps this opens up some other lines of inquiry for an investigation? I hesitated before making this comment as I have no direct evidence of anything other than what has been openly stated in the press. Maybe the proximity of movers and shakers will have an effect on the investigation that remains to be seen. So far one must say it is not yet evident.

My prediction stands. This ain't goin' the way of most FBI JBT shoots. Somebody's gonna get permanently sidelined, if not prosecuted to the fullest extent.Clearly from what has been made public so far at least several agents need to find other employment and there is a need for a criminal prosecution.

Stay well - stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown

43 posted on 03/15/2002 9:00:45 AM PST by harpseal
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To: harpseal
One noteworthy point is that the PI was not intimidated. He's naming names - FBI agent names - and to the press no less. This is an indication that there's some serious juice behind his investigation.
44 posted on 03/15/2002 9:07:31 AM PST by Harrison Bergeron
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To: harpseal
harp...

The air-tight "explanation" of this affair is in place. That was done before they released the perps name.

We may all rest assured that the "justification" for the shooting will entail the victim and or his friend as having said or done something, whereby the shooter feared for his life. All of this CYA is set in concrete and ALL of the perps present will spout the same line.

45 posted on 03/15/2002 9:09:47 AM PST by cynicom
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To: Harrison Bergeron
If the PI's description is accurate it sounds like the FBI is pretty scared about this one.

If it was a "good shooting" as they call it, there would be no reason to try to intimidate anyone. They would simply put the facts out for everyone to see.

That they are threatening investigators makes me think they know they are in trouble.

46 posted on 03/15/2002 9:21:59 AM PST by yarddog
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To: harpseal
Good post, anything I say will prove I'm one of those against us sorts that these irresponsible idiots fear. That office used to be held in high esteem by most Americans, now I fear and suspect it as I do any enemy of the American way of life. If I were an agent in that outfit such unprofessional hotdogs who do or cover for others would be let alone to wither on the vine per se.....peer pressure IMHO is all that good agents have these days to rid themselves of these clintonista regime of thinkers. Problem is that SAC's are now high enough in the food chain of that outfit to ensure others like them survive regardless of law, or internal investigations......

Total reorganization or development of an entire new unit and the eventual disbanding of the FiBi's is all that will work IMHO. But then this is America and sheeple will elect sadly more bubbafucco's and any good unit can only really police itself so much...........

A real pisser indeed, Stay Safe !

47 posted on 03/15/2002 9:36:24 AM PST by Squantos
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To: Mulder

RULE 308!


48 posted on 03/15/2002 9:36:44 AM PST by Travis McGee
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To: harpseal

"You're either with us, or with the peasants."

ES IST VERBOTEN, STAAT SEKURITAT ZU KRITISIERON!


49 posted on 03/15/2002 9:39:45 AM PST by Travis McGee
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To: Travis McGee
Squeeze, Baby, Squeeze

A big bump for "No Controlling Legal Authority".

50 posted on 03/15/2002 9:54:46 AM PST by meadsjn
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To: Mulder
Where are you John Ashcroft?!?!?! Another FBI murder of an innocent citizen has now blossomed into a coverup with OTHER FBI agents openly intimidating investigators. Where are you, you God fearing man? Maybe you should write another nice little song about eagles and patriots and teach the FBI to sing it.
51 posted on 03/15/2002 9:57:31 AM PST by mercy
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To: Fred Mertz
Now that the top 3 most corrupt FBI field offices in Maryland have weighed in I guess that settles "It was a clean shot".

After all who could question the ethics & integrity of the head of the FBI for Maryland, Lynne A. Hunt,

FBI Baltimore Office, Lynne A. Hunt, SAC

FBI Calverton field office, Jim Ellis

FBI Annapolis field office, Dave Midura SAC

Sounds like the FBI is running out of field offices in Maryland to make comments about their justification for shooting an innocent man in the face with an assualt rifle.

I've had dealings with all 3 of these field offices, it is the standard FBI M.O.

The FBI attorney I dealt with at Calverton has transfered to Ohio.

52 posted on 03/15/2002 9:59:07 AM PST by Donald Stone
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To: Teacher317
Accountabilty,ethics & integrity all the things the FBI leadership lacks, look at the supervisors Lynne A. Hunt, FBI Baltimore and Dave Midura,if the shooter was from the FBI Annapolis,MD. field office.
53 posted on 03/15/2002 10:06:41 AM PST by Donald Stone
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To: cynicom
For that matter we haven't heard any comments from Robert Mueller, Director of the FBI.

I wonder which rock in D.C. Mueller is hiding under.

54 posted on 03/15/2002 10:11:03 AM PST by Donald Stone
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To: Mulder
****Hodgson said that Wichner warned him that he would "end up looking pretty silly" once the shooting was ruled justified. In the call from Ellis, Hodgson said, he was told that he would be blocked from social interaction with his former FBI colleagues and friends if he worked on this case. Hodgson said it was Ellis who warned, "There's no middle ground on this thing. You're either with us or against us." ****

So it's the FBI against half the American people is that it agent Hodgson? It'd be more than half if they ever actually knew how you all murdered this kid and danced around his innocent bleeding body. You phucking scum! You traitor! You and those like you in the FBI are nothing but gubmint goons. Jack booted thugs. You are the dogs of Animal Farm and may God damn you to eternal hell. (Unless you repent of course. Fat chance.)

55 posted on 03/15/2002 10:14:21 AM PST by mercy
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To: Harrison Bergeron
This investigator knew that FBI agents that are corrupt hate having their names exposed in the media,especially with something as controversial as this.

One noteworthy point is that the PI was not intimidated. He's naming names - FBI agent names - and to the press no less.

56 posted on 03/15/2002 10:17:55 AM PST by Donald Stone
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To: Mulder
Dudley F.B. "Butch" Hodgson...

I think this is the same FBI agent, "Butch" that was in our Moto Guzzi Club - used to ride with him.

Must suck to defend the indefensible.

57 posted on 03/15/2002 10:19:52 AM PST by Wm Bach
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To: mercy
"It'd be more than half if they ever actually knew how you all murdered this kid and danced around his innocent bleeding body. "

It needs to be repewated that the kid is not dead. He's recovering at home and will "require reconstructive surgeries" to rebuild what's left of his cheek, jaw, nasal passages, and sinus cavity. In a nutshell, he's maimed for life.

Were I the father of this boy, I'd make it my life's mission to make SPECIAL AGENT CHRISTOPHER BRAGA'S life at least as miserable as my son's.

58 posted on 03/15/2002 10:25:35 AM PST by Harrison Bergeron
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To: Donald Stone
Donald...

We will hear nothing from Mueller, Ashcroft or Bush. The coverup will be ironclad. The perp shooter will walk, just like Horiuchi and the others.

59 posted on 03/15/2002 10:40:22 AM PST by cynicom
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To: Teacher317
Thank you for your post #23.
60 posted on 03/15/2002 10:52:26 AM PST by headsonpikes
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