Abuse scandal angers conservative Catholics

Boston Globe ^ | 3/27/02 | Michael Paulson

[SoothingDave]

You're right. I have no idea how all these priests came to molest children. I really don't. The constant revelations and admissions, and the covering up by the church, is just -- well, I am speechless. Truly. Thank you for your post.

You're welcome. A large part of the problem is that good honest orthodox Catholic men are routinely screened out of placement in the semenaries as being too "rigid." If one does not have a positive attitude about homosexuality or women priests, one is too rigid.

Needles to say this means only weak men are accepted. Then we have scandals and priest shortages, which naturally leads to a call for women priests. Tidy, isn't it?

SD

[LarryLied]

But who will be doing the cleaning? Those that have swept this under the carpet for god knows how long?

It looks as if the rank and file, salt of the earth, conservative Catholics are going to put so much pressure on the church reform will occur. This could turn out very well. The battle will be, as the article states, between the liberals who want to change the rules of the church (allow marriage, stop viewing homosexuality as a sin) and the conservatives. If conservatives do not win, the church is, in my opinion, finished. I least I hope that would be the case. A Catholic Church which fully embraced the left would be a nightmare for everyone, no matter what their faith.

[Salvation]

There is hope!

In Seminaries, New Ways for a New Generation

[berned]

A large part of the problem is that good honest orthodox Catholic men are routinely screened out of placement in the semenaries as being too "rigid." If one does not have a positive attitude about homosexuality or women priests, one is too rigid.

1Cor 6:9

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God ? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals , nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God

[Travis McGee]

bttt

[redhead]

"why can't nuns be elevated, as nuns, to a higher position of responsibility in the Catholic Church -- and lead a parish?"

this is a very common practice, especially in liberal dioceses. The problem is that most of these nuns are feminists. By and large, the only place you will find traditional, faithful nuns in full habit is in deeply cloistered convents. Mother Angelica's monastery is home to cloistered Poor Clare sisters.

[summer]

Huh. I did not know that. Thanks for the info.

[summer]

Thank you for the info. I did not realize that's what went on.

[BLASTER 14]

Whatever you say. Like I said, I'm certainly not antiCatholic, however Durant is not the only historian to make this point.

Being a Protestant it is a moot point to me, but I've got to say that celibacy seems to me to be unnatural, priest or layman. If I've offended you, I'm truly sorry.

[redhead]

"But who will be doing the cleaning?"

I can think of about 10 million faithful laypeople who would JUMP at the chance!

[RoughDobermann]

I can think of about 10 million faithful laypeople who would JUMP at the chance!

The question is: will you be given that chance? If not, how do you respond?

[choirboy]

One of the reasons given was that priests, bishops, archbishops, etc, were collecting unto themselves a lot of real estate and riches. These Churchmen passed this wealth on to their offspring as was the custom, thus denying it to the Catholic Church.

The Church wanted to control the production of wealth, thus the Pope stated that priests should be celibate and thus the Church would assume control of the means producing wealth.

I've seen this posted by others on FR and it is nonsense. Try this webpage by Fr. Anthony Zimmerman, STD: Celibacy dates back to the Apostles for an accurate, well-developed discussion of the history of celibacy in the Catholic Church.

[Matchett-PI]

"...now I guess Catholics will call me antiCatholic (also not true)."

Are you aware of the difference between the Roman Catholic Church, and the catholic church?

ALL regenerate Christians are saints and as such are members of the universal (catholic) church.

You can count me as anti-Romish doctrine. This is why:

"Romanism especially does not thrive in a republic, but there Calvinism finds itself most at home. An aristocratic form of church government tends toward monarchy in civil affairs, while a republican form of church government tends toward democracy in civil affairs. Says McFetridge, "Arminianism is unfavorable to civil liberty, and Calvinism is unfavorable to despotism. The despotic rulers of former days were not slow to observe the correctness of these propositions, and, claiming the divine right of kings, feared Calvinism as republicanism itself."

[born yesterday]

Homosexuality, as you said, remains the cause and problem. But beware the consequences of accepting "celibate" homosexual priests. I don't believe such men make good role models for our youth, either boys or girls.

[Campion]

The doctrine of the "divine right of kings" is a Protestant invention. To be specific, it was invented by the Protestant English king James I (he of KJV fame). It was unknown in pre-Reformation Catholic Europe.

Perhaps James I wasn't a Calvinist, but he wasn't a Catholic, either. If you'd like to demonstrate that the idea of the "divine right of kings" is contrary to Calvinism, be my guest, but don't stick us with the blame for it.

[redhead]

Probably not. You're right. It was a flip response. But there are still many good and faithful clergy in the Roman Catholic Church, any one of whose sandals I am not fit to unlatch. My own pastor, for instance, is such a person. But there ARE many laypeople with the knowhow, managerial sills, authority and ability to assist in this enterprise. I hope that some good members of the laity with the proper qualifications will be given the opportunity to provide help.

[Longshanks]

But are so many homo priests so far up in the Church hierarchy that they will prevent it from happening?

Certainly, if they can get away with it. That's why laymen must FREEP the bishops in front of chanceries and residences until Rome agrees to adopt the Boy Scout policy of no homos allowed.

[houston1]

Despite what the Church says, celibacy is the root of the problem. I graduated from a Catholic high school 20 years ago and out of a class of 800+ students, we only had 3 students going into "the vocations", 2 men, 1 woman. A lot of guys in my class said almost the exact same thing to me, that they would like to become priests, but they wanted to have families someday, so they weren't considering it as an option.
If you can't even get 1% of students you've had 12 years to indoctrinate into the faith to see it as a viable lifestyle, something has to change or the Church will continue to decline. I'm saying this to counter some of the statements that hetero men are being vetted out by the seminaries when in fact Church policy is vetting them before they even get that far. All of the abusers were not gay either, so throwing out all the gay priests won't solve the problem either, who will replace them for one thing? Both celibacy and marriage should be options left open to the clergy, and the pool of volunteers would increase about 80%.

[ex-snook]

"Mother Angelica's monastery is home to cloistered Poor Clare sisters. "

Who can pass this quiz?
1)Now guess who is disparaged the most by the liberal clergy?
2)What newspaper is the least likely to be on display in your Church?

If you said Mother Angelica and her EWTN stations and the Wanderer Newspaper, you would be correct. Both are in the forefront for years in exposing problems in the Church. ("They should not be showing the dirty linen" "they are uncharitable". Righto - better for the lawyers to do the exposing and raiding the collection baskets. A lot of money that could have been used better.

[Campion]

If you can't even get 1% of students you've had 12 years to indoctrinate into the faith to see it as a viable lifestyle, something has to change or the Church will continue to decline.

Maybe they weren't really teaching the Catholic Faith.

The FSSP seminary in Nebraska is full. The Nashville Dominican sisters are turning away potential novices: no room left in the convent. Dioceses with vigorous orthodox bishops, like Fargo, ND, have plenty of vocations to the priesthood. Mother Angelica's convent is full.

The Nashville Dominicans say that girls who call them ask two questions: "Are you primarily a teaching or nursing order?" and "Do you wear a habit?" (Answers: "teaching" and "yes") They look and act like sisters, not like grouchy, man-hating, church-hating refugees from the local NAG chapter.

The vocations are out there, but they are vocations to the Catholic priesthood & religious life, not to the AmChurch priesthood of feminist ideology, heresy, and banal liturgy.