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This is awful!
30 March 2002 | Me

Posted on 03/30/2002 1:02:28 AM PST by Nogbad

No, this is awful!
I don't know where anything is anymore!
Where are the sidebars?
I used to go straight to them
to find out
what was going on.


TOPICS: Breaking News; Miscellaneous; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: awful
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To: nopardons
IT HURTS MY EYES AND IS GIVING ME A MIGRAINE !

Me too! I feel like I'm drunk on homemade hooch. It's like I'm seeing double. I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

I think I've done both already.

Wake me when this nightmare's over.

101 posted on 03/30/2002 2:03:26 AM PST by Drew68
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To: dvwjr
The left side-bar could be cool if it could be filled with headlines from topics that interest me... although and option to turn it off would be nice.
102 posted on 03/30/2002 2:03:38 AM PST by John Farson
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To: jimmyBEEgood
Thanks for changing my 800*600 terminal screen to an effective 500*10,000!
(Hey kiwchyerbitchin! At LEAST this reply window is still as tiny as usual....)
103 posted on 03/30/2002 2:04:37 AM PST by Elsie
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To: ArneFufkin
Your prolific input is testament to your ability to overcome all odds I guess

And your lack of any straightforward input is due to what?
104 posted on 03/30/2002 2:05:21 AM PST by pt17
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To: ArneFufkin
Believe it or not, I was actually thinking I shouldn't have asked. Glad I did. Good yucks for an early Saturday.
105 posted on 03/30/2002 2:05:32 AM PST by leadpenny
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To: Artie_Kay
I would just caution you that there may have been vakid technicak issues why they made certain changes. Give the folks who bust their butts running this place the benefit of the doubt.
106 posted on 03/30/2002 2:05:50 AM PST by wireplay
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To: Nogbad
I just opened it in my Opera browser, and it looks pretty good now. The font is easier to read, the warp-scroll and right-side flashing stopped, and all the flags are gone from the left hand side. It's still too skinny, but it's 100% better than with Netscape and IE.
107 posted on 03/30/2002 2:06:42 AM PST by Sandy
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To: wireplay
" CREDIT " ? Credit for WHAT ? Absolutely ruining FR ? Making it almost impossible for a " webbie " to use ? Showing off what they can do with a computer ?

They can't " fix " it so that a " webbie " can use it, unless they remove 90 % of the " visuals "; that's what is slowing use down to molassas going uphill in the winter time, at the hieght of the new ice age. They can't fix it, so that a " webbie " can actually read the damned new fonts, unless and until they change this new and NOT " improved " look. I pity anyone with a smaller T.V. screen than I have, and I have quite a large one . The " new " ( gag, choke, puke ) lok, is just about UNREADABLE on a 30 " screen.

108 posted on 03/30/2002 2:06:58 AM PST by nopardons
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To: nopardons
I knew there was something out there you and I could wholeheartedly agree on. This is beyond terrible. I cannot find one single complimentary thing to say about it.
109 posted on 03/30/2002 2:07:03 AM PST by riley1992
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To: Elsie

Maybe we are missing the symbolism here: Old FR dies, replaced by dispair and sorrow.

Perhaps it will be RESURRECTED tomorrow!

110 posted on 03/30/2002 2:07:49 AM PST by Elsie
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To: Elsie
LOL :-D
111 posted on 03/30/2002 2:08:32 AM PST by John Farson
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To: John Robinson
I think it looks best using Opera. Thank you for fixing the Opera paragraph/spacing problem.
112 posted on 03/30/2002 2:09:35 AM PST by Sandy
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To: nopardons
You know, computers are pretty cheap these days and a lot of fun...
113 posted on 03/30/2002 2:10:45 AM PST by piasa
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To: Nogbad
I wonder, is there a way to change the display of "Latest Posts" so that each thread appears only once instead of every single post to every thread?
114 posted on 03/30/2002 2:11:07 AM PST by tictoc
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To: tictoc
Click "Show Threads Only"
115 posted on 03/30/2002 2:11:55 AM PST by John Farson
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To: nopardons
You've more than made your point: let them work on it. As I stated earlier, the WebTV stuff has to be fixed but sheesh. Have you done web design or development? Do you really understand how hard this stuff is, especially when it is done with a limited staff and budget? Give the guys a break.
116 posted on 03/30/2002 2:11:59 AM PST by wireplay
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To: piasa
Good ! Flood the damned thing and keep at it. Don't stop ; even if you have to type a bloody phone book and the Constitution, as well as an entire newspaper... prefferably the Sunday N.Y. Times in its entirety.
117 posted on 03/30/2002 2:12:14 AM PST by nopardons
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To: Sandy
Sandy, you won't believe this ... but I think John is progaramming for the untapped WebTV motherlode.
118 posted on 03/30/2002 2:12:53 AM PST by ArneFufkin
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To: nopardons
Let us know if they ever change your area code, we'll put you on suicide watch.
119 posted on 03/30/2002 2:14:17 AM PST by ArneFufkin
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To: patriciaruth
Where's my profile? WHERE'S the DOSE?

I just clicked on mine and it felt like I had been away on the vacation from Hell. I may just sit and stare at it for awhile but it's making me homesick.

120 posted on 03/30/2002 2:14:23 AM PST by riley1992
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To: wireplay
Granted. There may be reasons why, but it sure would be nice to actually know that instead of just assuming it's so.

I meant no slam on the FR staff, but as with any new changes, in any business, it's always wise to anticipate issues that will come with the change and address them BEFORE the change is made.

It makes acceptance of the change easier to understand and avoids resistance.

Glad some folks like the change, but looks like most don't.

Can't help but wonder if better planning and advanced anouncement of the change would have resulted in more positive reactions.

121 posted on 03/30/2002 2:15:11 AM PST by Artie_Kay
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To: John Farson
I'd prefer no left gutter column at all. There is a reason that text presentation is always left justified with a column of whitespace or no column at all. It's the way the eye has been trained to quickly pick up the next line. Doesn't work well with the Flag graphic. This is why so many people complain about the headaches. The othe problem is that the graphic is causing a tremendous slow down in vertical scrolling speed. I've got a dual 333mHz Pentium II system under NT4 with a Matrox G450 PCI card, far from state of the art, but more than fast enough for FR. Now to get the same effective scrolling speed, I would have to upgrade my system to about a 1.2gHz system to get the same effective scrolling speed just because of the left gutter column Flag graphic.
122 posted on 03/30/2002 2:15:37 AM PST by dvwjr
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To: nopardons
Ive been playing with beta the last few days and I would keep going back to the old way it was more efficient to use.
Thats why Im here for the speed of the post and easy navigation.

I dont like the option of having to log in to see just the headlines. (maybe i missed it but I dont think so)

Most of the time Im here to lurk and get my news of the minute.

I reiterate the I like the old way hopefully it will change back.
123 posted on 03/30/2002 2:17:16 AM PST by ezoeni
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To: pt17
And your lack of any straightforward input is due to what?

You fondled me in 1988.

124 posted on 03/30/2002 2:17:26 AM PST by ArneFufkin
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To: Sandy
If you go back to IE it seems to be getting a lot better. I just scrolled the forum section full text size no more waves. :>} That was a real biggie for me I oouldn't take much more of that at all. Looks like things are still being tweaked as we type.
125 posted on 03/30/2002 2:17:53 AM PST by cva66snipe
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To: Nogbad
I agree this is time-consuming and not worth the effort. I'm off to find the news. I'll come back sometime when I have a few days to search for things.
126 posted on 03/30/2002 2:18:15 AM PST by Lion's Cub
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To: ArneFufkin
On this thread, you mean ? I have " overcome " exactly NOTHING ! I haven't budged from this thread, since I found it. "webbies " can only have one screen . I just keep hitting the reload button.

I have two choices ... leave my web unit on forever ( not a good thing to do ! ) and NEVER get off this thread, or shut off, and try to use FR , until ( very, very, VERY soon ! ) it makes me so physically ill ( migraine, distorted vison, nausea ) , that I just pack it in and say the hell with FR. This, of course, will make some people exstatic.

127 posted on 03/30/2002 2:19:04 AM PST by nopardons
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To: Nogbad
If this new format were only a little "busier" it would be perfect.
128 posted on 03/30/2002 2:19:38 AM PST by Cagey
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To: dvwjr
I'm running on a 750Mhz Dell laptop with no perceived problems on the flag. I have a 21" monitor so that helps out on the eyes a bit ;-]
129 posted on 03/30/2002 2:19:46 AM PST by wireplay
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To: wireplay
Have you done web design or development? Do you really understand how hard this stuff is, especially when it is done with a limited staff and budget? Give the guys a break.

As someone who does understand (and manage) web site and web applications development, I'd like to say it is important to remember two key things: (1) Keep it simple. (2) Please your customers, especially those who pay you.
130 posted on 03/30/2002 2:20:51 AM PST by pt17
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To: nopardons
Here's a bold and daring option ... how about logging off?
131 posted on 03/30/2002 2:21:17 AM PST by ArneFufkin
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To: Lion Den Dan
yep this new layout is eye straining. its not very pleasent
please change it back

my eyes are hurting
132 posted on 03/30/2002 2:22:16 AM PST by ezoeni
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I am not happy with the change either and my time on FR has cut back significantly over the past few weeks since the first changes appeared and we could no longer get every article on the page. Some of us complained to the higher ups and hopefully they will fix the complaints before we move elsewhere. That would be unfortunate but it now takes too much effort to look for every article posted.

With so many complaining I am surprised this went on this far. Oh well. What do I know. Simplicity always works best.

133 posted on 03/30/2002 2:23:48 AM PST by alisasny
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To: pt17
Agreed. I wouldn't have done the flag bit myself but hey, no sense to go off the deep-end over it. My point is simple: FR operates as a non-profit with very limited staff and budget. Hence, no need to go on and on about how bad the new site is. Let them know and give them a chance to correct. I just get tired of "THIS IS AWFUL!!!!!THIS SUCKS". Have decorum.

You know what? I am tired of this and I've been coding ASP.NET for awhile. Time to log off.

134 posted on 03/30/2002 2:26:55 AM PST by wireplay
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To: alisasny
"Simplicity always works best."

You got that right!

Keeping it simple is just too simple a concept to understand, I guess.

135 posted on 03/30/2002 2:28:24 AM PST by Artie_Kay
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To: expatriot
There was nothing "broke" in the old format.

Agree! There is an old saying 'If it ain't broke don't fix it'.

The old FR was not broken.

The Tarheel

136 posted on 03/30/2002 2:29:20 AM PST by Tarheel
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To: pt17
i> As someone who does understand (and manage) web site and web applications development, I'd like to say it is important to remember two key things: (1) Keep it simple. (2) Please your customers, especially those who pay you

Let me get this straight ... keep it simple and be customer pleasing ... whew

I just don't understand you networking artists until I see it on a greaseboard with guys shooting baskets or some other kookiness going on.

I hate to butt in on your spirtitual Master Po like zen session ... but part of keeping it "simple" is making sure ALL your customers pay. I'd work on that one first.

137 posted on 03/30/2002 2:29:54 AM PST by ArneFufkin
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To: Leisler; John Robinson
Looks like success has created a bureaucracy, you know where make work takes precedence over real work.

Wow, just like the gub'mint! It makes me feel good that John is so busy, busy, busy.

Not to mention that it took me fifteen f*%#*$# minutes just to figure out how to log in.

John, haven't you figured out yet how many of us drink at night and are hungover and bitchy in the morning?

138 posted on 03/30/2002 2:30:22 AM PST by metesky
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To: nopardons
Uh oh. This is sort of starting to grow on me. I have no problems with scrolling and I'm using an HP with windows.

The flag bar doesn't slow me down at all, whereas I had problems for the past few weeks with FR locking up for some reason I have yet to figure out. No other side did that, and it doesn't make sense as far as I know.

The annoying thing about this format is that the 'from' commentor is in bold while the recipient 'to' is in regular print. I tend to look for who a comment is addressed 'to' rather than who wrote it. It would be better to put 'to' in bold, or put both the to and from in bold, so you can pick up both names easily from the clutter. A larger topic font would help, not in red though. The fewer font colors the better.

Also, some heavier or darker horizontal rules between comments, or a greater space between them, would be nice- the lack of a solid divider (or the closeness of the comments) makes them all blur together as if they were all one topic. More space between might be less cluttered.

I still need a spell checker and something to keep me from getting my fingers all twisted up so that I won't keep typing "Palestininas."

139 posted on 03/30/2002 2:33:00 AM PST by piasa
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To: Nogbad
You know, this isn't the only thing that's bad. I was shocked, not pleasantly, when I logged on this morning and saw a browser cluttered up with lots of form and very little information. Before, when clicking on latest posts, I could immediately see the titles of at least 50 posts, and a good proportion of them were visible on the screen. Now I can see but the first two or three posts in narrow column down the center of the screen. And the thing took forever to load. Not a good thing.
140 posted on 03/30/2002 2:33:09 AM PST by aruanan
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To: wireplay
Monitor size not a problem here! I use an IBM P201 21" trinitron (made for IBM by Sony Japan). As a test for most people on the scrolling issue, grab the scroll bar on this thread, and as you move the mouse rapidly, watch how closely the scroll bar follows the mouse cursor. Now try the same thing on the "latest posts". Big difference, since the scroll bar will not keep up with the drag of the mouse cursor. All due to the Flag graphic.

Same thing happens when I use my Microsoft Intellimouse Pro with the Intellipoint software. Using the wheel button in the autoscroll mode is vastly slower with the Flag graphic on the screen instead of just thread text. Bad user design, given equipment most use here.

141 posted on 03/30/2002 2:33:43 AM PST by dvwjr
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To: metesky
What does it mean to subscribe? I miss Breaking News, too.
142 posted on 03/30/2002 2:34:02 AM PST by Peach
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To: Tarheel
Agree! There is an old saying 'If it ain't broke don't fix it'.
The old FR was not broken.

Get used to it. You will never see the old, effective FR back. This stinks!!

143 posted on 03/30/2002 2:36:37 AM PST by Brownie74
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Comment #144 Removed by Moderator

To: Giddyupgo
"I want my old FR back!"

Me, too!

Carolyn

145 posted on 03/30/2002 2:37:44 AM PST by CDHart
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To: metesky
Not to mention that it took me fifteen f*%#*$# minutes just to figure out how to log in

Do you need any assistance finding your wife and kids? Car keys? The dog?

146 posted on 03/30/2002 2:37:58 AM PST by ArneFufkin
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To: ArneFufkin
the old fr was more W3 compiliant than this layout. Also I feel sorry for people not using the lastest hardware and software.

I can just imagine the issues of load times on low bandwidth users and smaller monitors.
147 posted on 03/30/2002 2:41:38 AM PST by ezoeni
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To: Peach
find "topics" at the top; scroll down to the topic you want (breaking news and lots others); click; it will say you're not subscribed; look over on the left bar--in small print it has a link to subscribe; hit it, and badda-bing.
148 posted on 03/30/2002 2:42:40 AM PST by Pistias
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To: dvwjr
If you disable Java and Java Script when using Netscape, the Flag does not appear on the left side. That definitely helps me to minimize the "sea sickness" effect when scrolling.
149 posted on 03/30/2002 2:43:42 AM PST by Scuttlebutt
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To: John Robinson
John, I now feel embarassed and uncomfortable ... it dawned on me - FR is sophisticated and of course there are niche forums that I must have stumbled innocently into.

I'm in a forum for head injury victims, right?

150 posted on 03/30/2002 2:44:27 AM PST by ArneFufkin
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