Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

A Simple, Easy Way to Protest Our Tax Code
3/31/2002 | DennisR

Posted on 03/31/2002 1:15:58 PM PST by DennisR

Well, I am almost finished with the most flagrant waste of my time--doing my Federal taxes. Just look at Schedule D to enter the worst nightmare of your tax-paying lives. For years, I have thought a flat rate would be best. The only deduction would be for charitable deductions, nothing else. Even Russia now has a flat rate tax of 13%! I think that's about 3% too high, but, hey, it's a step in the right direction.

Anyway, last night I came up with a great idea that might help politicians realize that they have to do something to end the insanity of a 46,000-page tax code. The idea is this: after sending in your 2001 tax return to the IRS, take your 2001 tax booklet and write "I want a 10% flat tax implemented by 2004," then mail it to one of your federal representatives. If they received tens of thousands of these booklets each year in their mail, maybe they would get an idea that we want simpliciation instead of punishment and distress.


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: flatrate; tax; taxcode; taxes; taxreform
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 141-159 next last
To: Pearls Before Swine
Flat tax good, rate too low. I've heard different theories ranging from 17% to 23% on what the flat tax would need to be to cover current expenditures. Anything less, and people scream about services.

Current expenditures are far and away too high, and most are grossly unconstitutional.

The country managed to survive for a century with an income tax of zero, and was then introduced with a "guarateed" maximum cap of 4%. Although the direct taxes are now about 20-30%, the things people buy with after-tax money were produced by tax-paying companies, and for which sales tax is collected, and people even have to spend after-tax income to pay for income-tax compliance, such as tax software, tax return preparation services, and so forth... I think the real tax rate ends up being something like 70% when you calculate how much of your labor pays directly for goods that you wish to buy, the balance is taxes somewhere or other.

An effective tax rate of 70% is clearly too high.

41 posted on 03/31/2002 2:19:30 PM PST by coloradan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: ancient_geezer
Thanks for the clarification. Even though Russia's is only on individual income, it is still a step in the right direction. We got here over decades of politicians putting in their own little laws and regulations--we'll have to get out the same way.
42 posted on 03/31/2002 2:21:36 PM PST by DennisR
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: DennisR

Good information. Based on the perceived waste that goes on in government, 23.5% is way too high. It would be my proposal that we work our way down to the 10% rate over a period of ten years or so.

Sounds good, here's one plan that can lead to that:

23%........... NRST rate

14.91% ..... rate if Social Security and Medicare were privatized
14% .......... rate if Nat'l Endowment for the Arts were eliminated
11.9%........ rate if Dept. of Education were eliminated
10% .......... rate if welfare were eliminated
etc.

Hmmmmmm.......

The key is making the full tax burden visible to the entire electorate, right now we are caught in a political trap with the income/payroll tax system we exist under:

 

Walter Williams, World Net Daily, 10-25-2000

According to the most recent U.S. Treasury Department figures, in 1997 the top 1 percent of income-earners (those with income of $250,000 and higher) paid 33 percent of all federal income taxes. The top 5 percent of income-earners ($108,000 and over) paid 52 percent, and the top 50 percent ($36,000 and over) paid 96 percent of income taxes. Guess what the bottom 50 percent of income earners paid?

If you're among those who pay little or no federal income taxes, what do you care about tax cuts? Moreover, if you think tax cuts pose a threat to government handout programs, you might be openly hostile and support Al Gore's silly "risky scheme" talk. So many Americans paying little or no federal taxes makes for a natural spending constituency. It's like me in the restaurant: What do I care about extravagance if you're footing the bill?

The ability to hide or disguise taxation from the view of large sectors of the electorate allows the Congress to get away with the creation of the evergrowing monster that it fosters.

A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul.
-George Bernard Shaw

Liberty and freedom have a price, responsibility. If that price is avoided there are no brakes on the growth of government, the ultimate result is the end of freedom through creeping socialism.

43 posted on 03/31/2002 2:21:43 PM PST by ancient_geezer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: DennisR;SentryoverAmerica
The only fair tax….is to have a national sales tax.

I think it is immoral to make every retailer in the country a tax collector.

The idea is this: after sending in your 2001 tax return to the IRS, take your 2001 tax booklet and write "I want a 10% flat tax implemented by 2004,"

I don’t believe sending the tax booklet to the IRS is going to get us much. However if a Senator was to get a few hundred tax booklets it might draw some attention.

Now if we could all agree on which Senator to send them to.

44 posted on 03/31/2002 2:22:05 PM PST by Pontiac
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DennisR;SentryoverAmerica
The only fair tax….is to have a national sales tax.

I think it is immoral to make every retailer in the country a tax collector.

The idea is this: after sending in your 2001 tax return to the IRS, take your 2001 tax booklet and write "I want a 10% flat tax implemented by 2004,"

I don’t believe sending the tax booklet to the IRS is going to get us much. However if a Senator was to get a few hundred tax booklets it might draw some attention.

Now if we could all agree on which Senator to send them to.

45 posted on 03/31/2002 2:22:09 PM PST by Pontiac
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Pontiac
The original suggestion was: "...mail it to one of your federal representatives," just as you suggest. Sending it to the IRS will not do any good. We each have two Senators and a Representative, so if it comes down to choosing one of these three, it should probably be the senior Senator. The news would obviously get to the other two in short order. Based on this, I will send mine to that illustrious senior Senator from the State of Washington, Ms. Patty Murray.
46 posted on 03/31/2002 2:25:24 PM PST by DennisR
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: coloradan

I think the real tax rate ends up being something like 70% when you calculate how much of your labor pays directly for goods that you wish to buy, the balance is taxes somewhere or other.

Pretty close:

We must . . . End Tax Slavery Now; Nov '97
by Jarret B. Wollstein

HOW MUCH DO YOU REALLY PAY?

     According to the Tax Foundation, in 1994 the average American paid 22.4% of his or her income in federal taxes, plus 11.8% in state and local taxes - 34.2% total.

     But that's just the beginning! Dr. James Payne of the University of California found that in addition to direct taxes we also pay huge, hidden taxes including:

     For every $1 we pay in direct taxes, we spend an additional $0.65 in compliance costs. And even that figure doesn't include the cost of import duties, license fees and other government regulations. For a typical U.S. family, the real cost of taxes and regulations is at least:

Federal taxes              22.4% of income
State & local taxes      11.8%
Compliance costs        22.2%
Regulatory costs         12.7%

70.1% of your income is now consumed by government


47 posted on 03/31/2002 2:27:20 PM PST by ancient_geezer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: Pontiac
I suppose another option would be to send all of them to Majority Leader Daschle or Minority Leader Lott. Or the Senator who would have the most influence over taxation. I do not know who that would be. Anyone else know?
48 posted on 03/31/2002 2:27:48 PM PST by DennisR
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: DennisR
Yes, I file. As I am required to perform my civic duties. I always file after April 15. My filing is simple: The government owes my federal taxes back to me. Signed, Buckeroo

They never pay, by the way.

49 posted on 03/31/2002 2:28:23 PM PST by Buckeroo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: DennisR
The question is not a flat tax vs the complicated mess that we have now. The right protest is to eliminate all the unnecessary spending so that we need no money from the income tax.

If the Federal government obeyed the tenth amendment, then a long list of illegal "services" would be eliminated and roughly 2/3 of the budget would go away. What is left can be paid for with various existing excise taxes and, maybe in war time, a small head tax collected by the states for the Feds in accordance to the original plan of the constitution.

50 posted on 03/31/2002 2:29:00 PM PST by Mike4Freedom
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DennisR
I'm with you on the Flat Tax!

I was a Delegate for Steve Forbes.

GOP_Lady

 


51 posted on 03/31/2002 2:30:53 PM PST by GOP_Lady
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: jadimov
Under a sales tax, prices will go up but so would disposable income. We would no longer pay income taxes.

Sorry to inform you but your disposable income would go down.

The NST proposals are taxes "of the gross payment" (including itself) at the final transaction, not the sale (before tax) price...That means you would pay taxes on other taxes, fees etc. imposed before it (the ultimate VAT)...The phony 23% sales tax would increase the price not 23% but a minimum of 30%. If you want to see an example of what a NST would do, take your phone or any utility bill riddled with taxes, fees, charges etc. that wouldn't be eliminated with the sales tax, then add 30% to "the gross payment" ...now tell me what percentage of tax is paid on the "service".

Using their phony 23% rate, my phone bill would have a 42% tax on the actual service charge.

The claim of "lower prices for goods and services" is also bogus...What part of the service would be reduced? Wages?...There's also a sales? tax on "ANY government" payroll (service) increasing the cost of government by 30%...

You would be paying a sales gross payment tax on things you never dreamed of. Like credit card and other interest. Don't forget interest is the purchase price for borrowing buying money, it along with investment interest, banking fees, management fees, are subject to the sales tax as well...

Eliminate tax payers,(corporations, estate, gift etc.)revenue neutral to the government and MORE disposable income for the tax payer?...No way.

As to the hookers, pimps etc...They would get a phony rebate every month the same as Bill Gates or anyone else would, and of course there wouldn't be any fraud in that total scam...GEE, where would that money come from anyway?

52 posted on 03/31/2002 2:31:03 PM PST by lewislynn
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: ancient_geezer
Let me tell you how it will be: There's one for you, 19 for me. Cause I'm the tax man, Yeah, I'm the tax man.
53 posted on 03/31/2002 2:31:12 PM PST by DennisR
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: GOP_Lady
Thanks for your support. Are you going to send in your tax booklet?

I would have loved it if Steve Forbes had made it to the Presidency. A true conservative with original ideas.
54 posted on 03/31/2002 2:33:56 PM PST by DennisR
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 51 | View Replies]

To: lewislynn
Thanks for clarifying this.
55 posted on 03/31/2002 2:35:01 PM PST by DennisR
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 52 | View Replies]

Comment #56 Removed by Moderator

To: Pontiac

I think it is immoral to make every retailer in the country a tax collector.

It's immoral to put every individual in the country under legal jeopardy and coercion of the income tax.

Taxation is going to occur and in fully under the Constitutional authority to levy and collect such taxes. It is up to us to assure that a proper mode is selected:

Thomas Hobbes from Leviathan

[Montesquieu wrote in Spirit of the Laws, XIII,c.14:]

Patrick Henry, Virginia Ratifying Convention June 12, 1788:

Alan Keyes lays out a solid moral case for a retail sales tax replacing the current system:

Alan Keyes refers to the income tax as the slave tax that should be abolished as a moral imperative, and replaced with a National Sales Tax:

Keyes on Taxes & Government Spending:

Alan Keyes Interview with Des Moines Register:

The intent of the structure of the individual income tax is for political and social control not revenue collection. The Individual Income tax is maintained to establish and hold every person in the country perpetual legal jeopardy. A properly designed NRST removes that jeopardy and provides increase liberty & financial privacy for all individuals.

57 posted on 03/31/2002 2:37:29 PM PST by ancient_geezer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: Pearls Before Swine
"Flat tax good, rate too low. I've heard different theories ranging from 17% to 23% on what the flat tax would need to be to cover current expenditures. Anything less, and people scream about services."

Let 'em scream, then. It's about time that we focus on Government paying for what Government is supposed to pay for.

Ten percent is all God asks (aka "tithing"). How on Earth could our stupid, wasteful Government ask for more? Too damned many with their hands out........and too few contributing.

No, my friend........let 'em whine. Ten percent it is (still FAR more than the original income tax rate, BTW.......look it up), and any increase would require a two-thirds super-majority vote in BOTH houses.

58 posted on 03/31/2002 2:40:13 PM PST by RightOnline
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: ancient_geezer
A 23% sales tax would kill our economy. Just the thought of paying that much would curtail my spending. It is better to have people pay 10%--a small amount compared to pay for the freedoms we have in this country--than to punish the economy with an NST.
59 posted on 03/31/2002 2:46:22 PM PST by DennisR
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 57 | View Replies]

To: RightOnline
Right on, RightOnLine. The more screaming I hear, the more we will know this is working.

Send in those tax booklets, everyone!.

And thank you for your support.
60 posted on 03/31/2002 2:49:12 PM PST by DennisR
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 58 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 141-159 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson