Posted on 04/04/2002 10:13:48 AM PST by B. A. Conservative
There have been 26 people who responded to the initial post in this series entitled, "Not Goint to Take It Anymore". I have tried to infer their thinking regarding the underlying premise of the series: the United States as defined under our Constitution has ceased to exist. There are at least two separate population groups living within the geographical confines of the United States. The two groups have diametrically opposing views of government. There is some over-lapping of the geographic areas occupied by the two groups, but surprisingly the over-lap is less than most imagine. This makes a geo-political division between the groups feasible and perhaps desireable.
Of the 26 replies, there was only one who felt that the idea that the United States is broken was treachery or treasonous. There were four who plan to monitor these threads and who seemed undecided. Most respondents agree that the United States is in fact broken.
I am posting the first question now as its own thread to provide additional opportunities to recruit additional Freepers to participate in the discussion and for each participant to have a venue to clearly state their own opinions.
Is the United States broken?
This should read "ARE the United States Broken". This is not a semantic exercise. It represents the erosion of state's powers and the growth of leviathan.
Regards
J.R.
To the rest of the world ,GET THE HE!! OUT OF OUR WAY!
Agreed.
If one is driving their automatic transmissioned car down the road and the trans stops pulling, and the vehicle slows to a stop and won't go forward, and ATF starts spilling out on the pavement; One does not say, "It seems logicical to begin a debate on whether this car is broken."
I like the way this story is going! LOL!
Waco is the defining cultural event of my life, couple with the fact that not only were the people responsible not held accountable to the law, but the people relected the President in 1996.
I believe circa 1937 is about the time they started seriously screwing with things that should have been left well enough alone.
Neither Waco nor Bill Clinton's reelection was caused by any "broken" aspect of our constitutional system, unless you consider the people to be broken. It's an argument not without its merits. The system is reasonably intact. Oh sure, it could stand some serious improvement in its operation, and of course some laws are better than others, and certain judicial precedents are not exactly desirable. But my point remains: we had at our disposal several means of dealing with Waco and the aftermath of Waco. America freely chose. And likewise we have at our disposal all the power necessary to undo any bad precedent, punish any bad public officer, and advance any set of ideas we choose. I'd like to know why saying so scares you.
Not sure how I found this thread, but I am glad I did since there seems to be some real clarity of thought here. Sadly, my verbal skills are average compared to my analytical skills, and I avoided reading books until I got out of college. With that disclaimer out of the way, I think that the sad truth is that the politicians we rag on so much are mostly a mirror image of the people they represent. I know it sounds trite, but we need to do a real thorough self inspection and fix ourselves first. In a kind of ironic, and wasteful way, 9/11 has served as a partial catalyst for this in my opinion so there may be some positive changes in the near future. As far as what we can do politically, I am more pessimistic. Sometimes I think that this is just the natural cycle of all political systems, and we are powerless to stop it. One thing I do know is that this republic was turned into a democracy in 1913 when the 17th Amendment was ratified, and it didn't take too long for Ben Franklin's warning to come to fruition. Congress was pretty busy that year, they also ratified the income tax amendment.
Someone mentioned something about a government being its people or at least a manifestation of it or something like that. I couldn't agree more. Justice is for the just, freedom for the free, there will never be a democracy in Afghanistan. This is why I think uncontrolled immigration is suicidal, we will certainly choke to death at this high rate. As JohnGault rightly points out, the demand is produced by industry, which is ironically being shipped overseas by way of something akin to the NIMBY argument. Difficult to make sense of that pile of spaghetti and where it is going. A government is its people and some of the stuff I see more and more people do these days makes me nervous. The number of cars parked with their hazzard lights on in front of the grocery store at anytime, is a very visible sign of a sick people, but maybe I am overreacting.
Both of those thoughts have gone through my mind many times, but I never drew the link. Pretty insightful. How about the people who misuse the words democracy and republic? Do they deserve either?
I suppose that the 19th Amendment was the biggest step toward "universal suffrage." How do you feel about that one?
"The war was a conflict over grammar- whether the proper grammar was 'the united States are' or 'The United States is'."
Basil Gildersleeve
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