Skip to comments.***Breaking Tomorrow***Clinton Administration Cover-Up of McVey/Mid-East Terror Connection***
Posted on 04/18/2002 7:38:52 PM PDT by midwestmidnight
I was listening to WTVN 610 AM (Columbus, OH) this evening. They were interviewing Kenneth Timmerman about his book Shakedown. He apologized for delaying the start of his interveiw as he had to talk to his editor at Insight Magazine about meeting his deadline for this story to break on Friday morning (4/19/02). He commented that the story will present evidence that the Clinton Administration and the FBI covered-up information linking Timothy McVey and Middle Eastern Terrorists. Timmerman stated that Clinton wanted to pin all of the blame on Right-Wing Extremists.
Texaggie79 slandered the Michigan Militia by calling them "freaks".
In post 226, I asked him what's his beef with MM.
I asked him if he knew any MM members.
I asked him if he knows any "freakish" acts by MM members.
I asked him if his opinions come from Time Magazine. (Is this what you consider me "hanging" him)?
I mentioned my limited experience with MM.
I asked him what branch of the government he worked for. (Is this where I called his loyalties and intentions into question)?
I thought the play by play was very civil.
Incidentally, you might check his post 231. It didn't help anybody understand the other party's point of view. The slander got worse; he's now quoting militia members saying things I doubt they said (at least in front of Tex).
Hmmmm. When have I heard this before? January, 1998 maybe? Something about an intern?
In addition, Andreas Strassmeir the director of security at EC, told Ambrose Evans-Pritchard flat out there was a government informant at EC. Evans-Pritchard believes Strassmeir was referring to himself. (A member of the Texas Light Infantry tailed Strassmeir one night and watched him go into an ATF building after punching in the combination lock numbers from memory.)
Dennis Mahon, head man at EC (or Robert Millar, the spiritual head) (or both) was also a government informant.
Bear in mind, all these folks are open Nazis, neo-Nazis and/or white supremicists espousing violence and they are all reporting to our government. Brings to mind the Communist trick of creating "opposition groups" where the government can keep track of them, eliminate them, use them to commit acts the government itself cannot commit or discredit them (remember Cointelpro) as it sees fit.
I think the people who sneer at any mention of government involvement are forgetting the Reichstad (sp?) fire. But, of course, that happened "there"; it could never happen here.
The BATF received $100,000,000.00 increase in their budget after OKC. I would bet the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts would not kill innocents for 100M but I can't think of too many other organizations I would automatically eliminate. Before you say BATF, remember Ruby Ridge and Waco.
It most certainly IS the job of John Ashcroft's DOJ--and ultimately the Bush Administration--to rout out endemic corruption of the past Administration's DOJ, FBI, and CIA, so as to rid his Administration of said corruption. If investigations into why the FBI chose to cover-up the OKC/MidEast Terror Connection lead to Reno or Clinton, IMHO it is Ashcroft's/Bush's responsibility to hold them accountable.
"His number one responsibility to to keep us safe."
Do you not see that allowing Rampant Corruption within the Highest Echelons of our Federal Government to go unpunished diminishes the security of us all?! The two are closely interlinked.
I I do not know which "things" you speak of, but you can be assured that I would conduct a number of things in a more honest and consistent manner than is currently being done. There is no compromise on moral principles - if those moral principles are truly moral principles - and not just lip service.
Wouldn't life be soooo much simpler if we could, glorygirl?! However, the Path to Tyranny is paved with such abdications of civic responsibility, and we've already traveled a frightening distance up said path. If We the Sheeple allow our self-styled Ruling Class to hold themselves Above the Law, and thereby unaccountable to the rules that bind the rest of us, how can we pretend we live in a FRee and Just Nation?!
April 19 = American Revolution starts.You have to admit it was nice timing on the libeled party's part for getting OKCSubmariner's posts erased.
April 19 = Waco Seige.
April 19 = OCK Bombing
April 19 = Tomorrow. .
I'm not sure it's my cup o'tea but they've evidently got quite the ironic sense of humor about the whole thing.
The cover up of a Muslim connection to the attack is possible, but not overt acts by clinton to facilitate it. It's a fanciful dream and nothing more.
How much more likely is it that Clinton, at the time, knew, or at least found out what was going on, given all the evidence that's been produced since then, and his behavior shortly after the bombing?.
I don't know how old you are, or how closely you were paying attention during the first half of the Clinton administration. But it was a horrible thing to see Clinton decline to accept any responsibility for Waco, and place the blame instead on his appointed AG, a woman who'd been working for the federal government for less than two months. (Of course he didn't have much more experience at that level then, either, which is no excuse. At least Reno admitted ordering it.)
It was no more comforting, and highly disturbing, in fact, to hear Clinton promise, just after McVeigh's arrest, that the "perpetrators would be put to death, sooner rather than later." I distinctly remember sitting in my car, listening to my radio, and thinking "whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?" (of course, in Clinton's view, that only applies when the VRWC is doing the accusing)
And that was in April, 1995, way before we knew all the stuff we know now.
And the next thing he does is blame the radio talkshow hosts. Well, Bill, why don't we just get rid of radio & TV, or better yet, let's put it into the hands of the goverment. The Telecommunications Act of 1996 effectively accomplished that. And he got the Anti-Terrorism bill passed that year, too, retroactively, which is unheard of.
Oh, well, the list is endless.
None of us knows for certain what occurred -- just that there was definitely some kind of Middle East connection, and that the bombing definitely DID NOT go down the way the federal government said it did. Whether rogue elements of the federal government were involved, and to what degree, is uncertain, whether the Strassmeiers of the world were involved and to what degree also remains uncertain.
It is possible that NO ONE knows for sure exactly what happened, now that McVeigh is dead. But we do know there is more to the story that should be investigated, and Bill Clinton is largely at fault for not insisting it be done very early in his administration.
I thought Dan Burton said that these would be sealed forever unless the people "demanded their release?"
I'm not sure if Rep. Burton is talking about this or something else.
Which is why the mainstream press won't touch it.
I'm thirty-one, to clear that up, and was paying attention when the OKC bombing happened. I wasn't, however, as tuned in to things as I am now. Thanks always to Jim Robinson and others for this great site which has helped turn the Internet into a bastion of conservatism in a world where widely disseminated information is too often slanted toward the left.
At the time the A.P Murrah building was bombed, my major focus was news relating to real estate, finance, equity markets, headlines, and the like, but I couldn't stand wj clinton even before he was elected the first time. I've voted down-the-line Republican since 18 even though as a Californian, that has made no real difference in recent local elections. Perhaps it was a bias toward my relatively newfound ideology (read hard-won wisdom, and it wasn't a bias). I was 21, in college, and a committed conservative at that age, when clinton was elected. Well prior to that, at some point early in my Freshman year of HS I began to realize I was a conservative. Before that, I was all about conservation, a unilateral (though I didn't truly know at that time what that meant) freeze of nuclear weapons development (and unilateral disarmament altogether: hell, we were poised to obliterate all life on Earth. What sense did THAT make?), and all manner of nice, utopian liberal doctrine. Until I grew past these superficial, but attractive to those who didn't have a grasp, causes that have no basis in reality, I gave money to liberal organizations and causes (such as I had). It all sounded so great. Here we Americans were, virulently opposed to some other "relative" ideology (Communism) when the survival of the "Earth [hung] in the balance." Such arrogance! We were over-populating the planet, exhausting the world's resources and driving all non-human life on the planet to extinction, which in turn must lead to our own extinction. If we didn't blow everything up first. Yet we were so insistant we were right that we were building weapons that, if used, would lead to the destruction of everything recognizable to us on our own planet. Bad karma, for sure. Bad practice by any objective measure. How did we expect to survive when the world was desolate and everything we needed to survive was destroyed?
As it has on so many others (and will hopefully on so many more), logic finally prevailed on me. What was it Winston Churchill said about liberals and conservatives and MATURITY?
I expect you don't want to hear the entire story of my political awakening and maturing, so I'll get to the point. Just wanted you to realize that I was a bona fide liberal once and that really good fortune or upbringing brought me around to a more sound understanding of things.
I've read some compelling evidence in this thread of a Muslim terrorist connection to the OKC bombing. I want to believe there was a connection. After it all broke out, I was VERY despondent to learn (as the media portrayed) that Americans and not Middle Easterners implemented the attack. The emotion I experienced after the first reports (I cried, and I'm not one who cries pretty much ever; the only times I've cried since the OKC bombing were on several very emotional occasions after the WTC bombings) turned to disbelief with that revelation (which I assumed true at the time).
Once the word came through from "reliable" news sources that (first) Timothy (and then) Terry (home grown Americans both) were the sole persons behind that awful tragedy in OKC, with perhaps the help of sympathetic, right-wing militia groups as well (I have family in OKC, know a lot of folks there, and very much love the area and the people who live there and nearby), I took the media at its word, notwithstanding inconsistencies from earlier reports. After all, early reports following complicated events often prove (at least so far as I knew at the time being informed only mainstream outlets of information) to be untrue. A couple of Americans, and so-called right-wing Americans did this? It was a major bummer.
I'll keep an open mind about what's put forward in this thread, especially in light of the many very bright FReepers who (and many of whom have better information than I have on this matter) don't arbitrarily shoot the Clinton or Muslim connections down out of reflex, but I won't assume, unless every FReeper I know and respect holds the view and the evidence positively points in that direction, that the events of that awful day followed some directive or conspiracy from the Middle East, specifically, Iraq, or clinton, or both, unless there's very compelling (more compelling than what I've seen) evidence, however much I'd like to believe such is the case. A lot of intelligent and credible FReepers may be brighter than myself, but they're fallible and biased like everyone else (myself very much included). On the other hand, I'll never discount the possibility that what's suggested in this thread is in fact what occurred until very persuasive evidence (and not the word of the mainstream media) demonstrates otherwise.
We're conservatives. As a general rule we know what's up, or at least are quicker than most others in the uptake. We shouldn't absolutely commit ourselves to a position that might ultimately be proven untrue, however we personally and instinctively view the situation. Likewise, we certainly won't, being sensible people, hold absolutely to an opposite position that also might be untrue (that Muslims, or even Clinton, were NOT directly involved).
However the evidence reads to us, let's all keep open minds and not commit ourselves on the bases of impressions and possibly uninformed logic or misinformation. It wouldn't be the first time we relied on what didn't pan out in the end from a factual point of view.
Credibility is a major factor in winning undecided voters, and sometimes our credibility suffers EVEN WHEN we're absolutely right. As a democratic republic, we must win over voters, or lose what's precious to us in our nation.
Our purpose remains the this: to restore the Constitution to what the Founders, in their timeless wisdom, believed it should be, and to what in the end made America into the greatest and best nation in the world, today, and in all of recorded history. Beyond that our purpose is whatever common sense tells us is best for our America and its people.
If pursuing things like the assumptions and factually accurate information on this and other threads on the same topic in any way strengthens America and helps to return her to her former real glory and elevate hope for all humanity, I'm all for that. For what it's worth, I believe that America and her system of government are more rational and balanced, given intrinsic human imperfections, than any other government in the history of the world (even given how dilluted our Constitution is today), and remain the best hope for humanity's survival in an increasingly technologicaly advanced and complex world populated by a lot of unpredictable and unstable people. Humanity's preservation (outside the auspices of the UN) is something we should all be for without reservation. In my mind, that means a strong and principled America. If the conclusions we make and actions we take prove well-founded, and yet, bring us no nearer to what we most strongly desire and what is in the best interest of our nation and future generations, I'd prefer to expend my energies elsewhere where I know they'll bring some result.
All that said, if it's still possible, it's altogether to the good of our great Republic, and all its people (and in the end to all the world), to put clinton and democrats in their place right here in America. This should have happened long ago but didn't for a variety of reasons which are far outside the scope of the topic of this thread but which I'm sure are known to you. If there's any hope this issue will accomplish that, FANTASTIC! You can count on me to do what I can, unequivocally, to join the charge. I'll bring friends to join the charge as well. If not, let's devote our time and energies elsewhere.
Who knows what really happened behind the scenes. I put little past clinton, but I'm a long way from being persuaded that he was intimately involved, prior to the fact, with what happened at the Alfred P. Murrah building (much as I'd love to believe he was involved). If he was, he is by any standard a real traitor to his nation and should (and gratifyingly would upon a satisfactory legal showing of treason) find a traitor's end. Clinton WAS and is a traitor to this nation in any event. Narrowing this specifically to the question of his involvement in the OKC bombing, I have serious (almost absolute) doubts based based on my own brand of common sense, but I can be persuaded of anything if persuasive evidence is presented. I'm hungry for something like this! Trying Clinton with the implementation of this event does however seem a real stretch. A Middle Eastern connection with the OKC bombing seems much more plausible than a clinton connection (aside from possible Clinton cover ups which are certainly plausible), but what I've read (together with the many links to resources on this thread) hasn't yet led me to believe (or discount, to be clear) that conclusion either. Not to in any way diminish at all the value of the lives lost in OKC, but I'd be delighted to learn that either or both scenarios were the case. We'd make damn sure, whatever it took within legal or reasonable means, that the media took notice. If that failed, we'd find other avenues. Our livelihoods and those of our children and future generations depend on what we do today, and exposing and eliminating the culmination of German social engineering (I'm of German ancestory and love everything about Germany and its people as a whole aside from the destructive political philosophies many of its so-called intellectuals contrived which the rest of the developed world has adopted and won't seem to let go of) which gave rise to Naziism, Fascism and Socialism, from our country.
I hope you don't take anything I've said this morning wrong. I'm tired and doing the best I can. Not a wink of sleep last night. Just putting forward my opinion which I'm not for a moment suggesting is absolutely right. It's opinion and will likely change as new or better information presents. Apologies for typing your eyes off this morning. Guess this one touched a nerve and set me going.
I've no love whatsoever for Clinton (however un-Christian that might sound), but I love Truth more than I hate a rapist of women and a nation and of the rights of its people. :)
Best wishes and hope you have a great weekend. Would like to stay in touch.