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Pope: Priests Must Stay Celibate
AP via Yahoo via Drudge ^ | 4-20-2002 | NICOLE WINFIELD

Posted on 04/20/2002 4:14:07 PM PDT by Notwithstanding

In a strong message days before a summit of U.S. churchmen on a sex abuse scandal, Pope John Paul (news - web sites) II said Saturday that priests must live celibate lives and avoid scandalous behavior. Bishops, he said, must investigate such behavior and take action to end it.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: catholic; homosexual; pope; repeatcondemnation; scandal
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To: marajade
But when celibacy was instituted by Pope Gregory that wasn't the case though was it? In around 1,000 Pope Gregory edicted that priests be celibate that those priests who were married were in effect divorced from their wives before they were allowed to serve.

Celibacy was a discipline long before Pope Gregory VII, some members of the clergy agreed to lex continentiae and then ignored it; refer to Canons XXVII and XXXIII from the Council of Elvira, 295-302 AD. Peter and Jesus speak about those who have given up everything, including wives, to follow Christ. Melchisedech, Elias, John the Baptist, Paul and Jesus, to name just a few, were celibate.

Celibacy dates back to the Apostles

The Biblical Foundations of Priestly Celibacy

Celibacy - A Historical Perspective

81 posted on 04/20/2002 8:45:14 PM PDT by SMEDLEYBUTLER
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To: Excuse_My_Bellicosity
Do you believe LadyDoc's position to be a "rigid female tirade" because you believe it's not possible for men to take such a responsible position?
82 posted on 04/20/2002 8:47:49 PM PDT by anniegetyourgun
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To: SMEDLEYBUTLER
Fornication....now there's a term folks hate to use, but one that needs to be brought back. In fact, though I am not Catholic, I wish the Pope would use it more often in reference to this scandal AND that of heterosexuals shacking up.
83 posted on 04/20/2002 8:53:12 PM PDT by anniegetyourgun
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To: Loyalist
The canon of the Bible was not fixed until the 2nd century.

The canon of the Bible was closed in 405 AD by Pope St. Innocent I.

84 posted on 04/20/2002 8:53:30 PM PDT by SMEDLEYBUTLER
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Comment #85 Removed by Moderator

To: Notwithstanding
How many of these scholars do you think know who was reponsible for putting chapter divisions into the Bible?
86 posted on 04/20/2002 8:56:32 PM PDT by SMEDLEYBUTLER
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To: Notwithstanding
As are the requirements that a priest be able to read and write, speak the language of his diocese, and that he have arms. He must also wear clothes and bathe occasionally. None of those requirements are in the bible, but none of them contradict what is in the bible.

Doesn't celibacy contradict "A bishop should be the husband of one wife"? It's from one of the Epistles, I forget which.

87 posted on 04/20/2002 9:09:24 PM PDT by be131
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To: SMEDLEYBUTLER
My error.

If anything, that fact strengthens the argument against sola scriptura .

88 posted on 04/20/2002 9:31:56 PM PDT by Loyalist
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To: ninenot
Celibacy will never be optional with any of JPII's successors, either. Get used to it, Sinky.

It already is, in the Eastern Rite, and, if you're Episcopalian and thinking of converting, you can get married.

It's only a matter of time, niner.

89 posted on 04/20/2002 9:38:22 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: Notwithstanding
I never did understand the whole Catholic celibacy thing. It has never caused anything but trouble. I am the son, grandson, and great-grandson of ministers of the gospel. No celibacy there. Never could find that verse in the Bible requiring those who guide the flock can't be married. Several of the apostles were married and Paul, though single, specifically mentions that it is fine to marry. The only requirement I see is that deacons should only have one wife. Of course, the Bible doesn't mention the Pope, monks, nuns, confession booths, purgatory, cardinals, the vicar of Christ, Mary's perpetual virginity (she had other children you know) or sinlessness (all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God), praying to the saints, or veneration of relic just to name a few things. Just my two bits.
90 posted on 04/20/2002 10:01:04 PM PDT by TheConservativeCitizen
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To: SMEDLEYBUTLER
Scholars! That explains a lot! Scholars!
91 posted on 04/20/2002 10:10:58 PM PDT by St.Chuck
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To: Notwithstanding
Yet celibacy for priests wasn't always required by the Catholic Church, so by 3000 that may change. Because the only infallible doctrine is about Jesus bringing us salvation, not whether or not the clergy can be married and still serve their parishioners. Not that celibacy has much to do with the immoral and criminal pedophilia that some of the priests are committing.

I'm wondering why we're only hearing about American priests. It seems highly unlikely that priests in other countries aren't having similar problems. Ot is the screening process over here less strict?

92 posted on 04/20/2002 10:28:40 PM PDT by skr
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To: Notwithstanding
X42 remains "celibate", and 48% of the country lies for him. Even Billy Graham
93 posted on 04/20/2002 10:37:18 PM PDT by Waco
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To: be131
Doesn't celibacy contradict "A bishop should be the husband of one wife"?

No it does not. One can be married and be celibate, re continent.

94 posted on 04/20/2002 10:58:11 PM PDT by SMEDLEYBUTLER
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To: FreedomeFighter1
I never did understand the whole Catholic celibacy thing. It has never caused anything but trouble. I am the son, grandson, and great-grandson of ministers of the gospel. No celibacy there. Never could find that verse in the Bible requiring those who guide the flock can't be married.

Celibacy is a discipline and not a doctrine. Melchisedech, Elias, Paul, John the Baptist and Christ Himself, amongst others were celibate.

Several of the apostles were married and Paul, though single, specifically mentions that it is fine to marry. The only requirement I see is that deacons should only have one wife.

The Apostles gave up everything, including wives; Matthew 19:27-29, to follow Christ. By the way, besides mentioning Peters' mother-in-law where does Scripture mention the other Apostles' wives and where does it mention them engaging in sexual relations with their wives?

Of course, the Bible doesn't mention the Pope, monks, nuns, confession booths, purgatory, cardinals, the vicar of Christ, Mary's perpetual virginity (she had other children you know) or sinlessness (all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God), praying to the saints, or veneration of relic just to name a few things. Just my two bits.

Your two bits aren't worth a penny and shows how little you know of Scripture. The Bible doesn't contain the words Trinity, Incarnation or Bible, so why do you believe in them? The Bible doesn't tell us of the deaths of the Apostles, with the exception of the traitor Judas, or Joseph so obviously they are all still alive, right? Mary had no other children, Scripture does not describe Her and Joseph having any other children, Scripture does not tell us that Mary remarried and even Calvin, Zwingli and Luther wrote that She remained a virgin. To state that She did remarry or had other children is non-Scriptural. Christ never sinned, prior to the fall Adam and Eve didn't sin and no one but Mary is called "full of grace" in Scripture. Since every sin diminishes grace Mary could not have been full of grace if Her soul was touched by sin.

Seems you need to reread the Bible (which were it not for the Catholic Church would not exist as a book). In particular:

John 21:25

1 Corinthians 11:2

2 Thessalonians 2:15, 3:6

You might also read The Protoevangelium of James the Apostle, who actually knew the Blessed Virgin Mary. If you'd like the quotes from Calvin, Luther and Zwingli on the Blessed Virgin Mary, I'll be happy to provide them too.

95 posted on 04/20/2002 11:21:56 PM PDT by SMEDLEYBUTLER
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To: Excuse_My_Bellicosity
The only way that I could do that is if somebody had me quick-frozen. I gotta hand it to anybody who does this and really sticks to the rules. There's no way I could.

It's a matter of character for single people (that includes priests-celibate means single), and for married people. Yes, married people, too. You have to be willing to abstain from sex, at least for periods of time, in order to be a faithful spouse (no, I'm not being sarcastic-this time). What if your work takes you away for a while. What if the woman has a hard pregnancy, and then there is that 6 weeks after the birth of a child. What if your spouse becomes ill? For a married person to say he can't go without sex is to say he can't remain faithful. Character.

96 posted on 04/21/2002 1:17:01 AM PDT by Jeff Chandler
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To: Notwithstanding; Excuse_My_Bellicosity; umgud; Paul Atreides; breakem; sinkspur; uncbob...
Stuffy robes ruin marriage chances, say Greek priests
97 posted on 04/21/2002 1:27:50 AM PDT by Spar
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To: joanofarc
"They have to be classified as the DEVILS invading anything that affects our morals."

You have to be careful with words here. While I do think there is some sort of diabolical agenda that has infiltrated some seminaries and sectors of the Priesthood, the individuals aren't devils but they might very well be manipulated by devils. They are deeply disordered and our society doesn't view homosexuality as a disorder right now(though this crisis could start a shift back in that direction.)

We do need to eradicate this disordered behavior from the Priesthood as quickly as possible. And we need to make the seminaries psychologically comfortable to men who are not disordered.
98 posted on 04/21/2002 3:02:12 AM PDT by Domestic Church
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To: joathome
With the shortage of vocations over the last few decades, . . .

Do read Goodbye, Good Men>, due out about now. Major seminaries have been turning away those who are orthodox in favor of the loony left. Those seminaries that have been turning away homosexuals and those weak in faith and accepting the orthodox and devout are flourishing.

Youth really are idealistic (and I say this as someone who doesn't much care for the young -- they're too exhausting); vocations (it seems to me) dropped when the Church stopped demanding everything -- do your own thing, have your own apartment, dress like everyone else. I think the Palestinian suicide bombers -- and/or those who recruit them -- have more sense (and I am staunchly pro-Israel; I think they're horribly wrong, but not necessarily lost -- remember C.S. Lewis in the Narnia series -- intention counts for a lot).

Ask everything of youth and you'll get it. Ask crap, and you'll get that.

99 posted on 04/21/2002 3:11:56 AM PDT by maryz
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To: Notwithstanding
". . . your own church likely forbids at least two of the following categories of people to marry . . ."

You forgot degrees of consanguinity (i.e., brothers and sisters, first cousins, etc.).

100 posted on 04/21/2002 3:21:23 AM PDT by maryz
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