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Barbarians in the Church
Intellivu ^ | 4/22/02 | Bill O'Reilly

Posted on 04/22/2002 5:36:05 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez

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To: history_matters; afraidfortherepublic
I will also ask Padre Pio

It would be an especially good idea to "hit him up" on his canonization day, June 16.

I had a co-worker who had stage four non-Hodgkin's lymphoma. I asked Padre Pio on his beatification day to ask the Lord to cure him. His doctor now refers to him as his "little miracle," and his case was written up in a medical journal.

Padre Pio stikes again!

41 posted on 04/23/2002 7:41:59 PM PDT by BlessedBeGod
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To: BlessedBeGod
Gloria in excelsis Deo!!!
42 posted on 04/23/2002 7:51:21 PM PDT by history_matters
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Thanks for the ping, Luis. I'm sorry for Bill O'Reilly's experience with hypocrisy in the Church. My own Sunday school children's minister (Presbyterian) scared me into leaving church....and many adults, I know never return after an abuse of authority by these most important caretakers of the soul.

Your thread is very civilized considering the issue. I, on the other hand, unknowingly started a small religious war over here: We the Priests in order to form a more perfect union...".

43 posted on 04/23/2002 7:51:25 PM PDT by Ragtime Cowgirl
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To: Victoria Delsoul
Religion should be taken seriously and it should be more than a lifestyle choice. There are some people who blame the vow of celibacy as the cause of the sexual abuse of children. This is not factual. A vow of celibacy may be difficult, since the sexual drive is non-trivial. However, men are not animals. Only those trapped in their immature behavior think that such a vow is an unnatural repression of tremendous energies. Ending the vow of celibacy will not deter homosexuality and pederasty. A man who has demonstrated grave perversity shouldn't be a priest. The priesthood is not a right and it's not subject to government laws. Priesthood is a vocation from God and an office conferred by the Church. Christ gave the apostles the power to bind and unbind -- hence the power of the Church to make law; and the Church, based on tradition and Scripture, may determine who may be a priest. The Church has consistently condemned homosexual behavior, so it is only logical that the Church should agree to enforce a zero- tolerance policy and expel priests found guilty of such abuse.

Just had to print your most excellent text again.

44 posted on 04/23/2002 7:55:01 PM PDT by history_matters
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To: history_matters; BlessedBeGod
Thank you for your prayers.
45 posted on 04/23/2002 8:13:06 PM PDT by afraidfortherepublic
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To: Alberta's Child; BlessedBeGod; history_matters
You asked me earlier to expand on two ideas.

1) The idea that self-control among men is paramount in this issue (as well as in any other area of life), and
2) The concept of the priesthood as a vocation instead of a career.

Self-control among priests is paramount because a priest who has taken a vow of celibacy can't possibly be a good priest if he engages in any sexual behavior. Jesus Christ appoints certain men to renew in his name the sacrifice of our redemption and to share his sacred ministry by the laying on of hands. The Lord calls them to lead God's holy people in love, nourish them by His word, and strengthen them through the sacraments giving them the dignity of royal priesthood to the people he made His own with a brother's love.

Regarding priesthood as a vocation instead of a career, it is because the main goal of the Church is to be a servant to the poor, the needy, the oppressed, and the voiceless. The priest is called to serve God and the Church. Priests vow themselves to live in poverty, chastity and obedience. And it is these same vows of poverty, chastity and obedience which are in stark contrast to the materialism and consumerism, the hedonism so prevalent and the self-willfulness that is so characteristic of our society. It is this simplicity, self-control, and God's will rather than one's own that challenges the priorities of a secular, self-centered and materialistic society. These vows are a prerequisite to be converted to Jesus Christ and His Gospel. The Church would no longer be recognizable as the Church without these gifts from God. This is why these vows must be fostered.

46 posted on 04/23/2002 8:21:00 PM PDT by Victoria Delsoul
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To: Victoria Delsoul
Your words are so true and so beautifully written that I am moved to tears. How I long to hear such clarity from the US Cardinals.
47 posted on 04/24/2002 2:23:51 AM PDT by history_matters
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To: Victoria Delsoul; RJayneJ
Outstanding and eloquent. I hereby nominate this piece for Essay of the Week.
48 posted on 04/24/2002 5:58:22 AM PDT by Alberta's Child
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To: SMEDLEYBUTLER
I have a question I would like to ask someone. I am not trying to offend anyone here, just a curious Baptist. Why is Mary always referred to as the Virgin Mary? Mary was a virgin when she conceived and gave birth to Jesus. However, after Jesus was born, she and Joseph had children. Therefore she was no longer a virgin. Right?
49 posted on 04/24/2002 6:08:16 AM PDT by flair2000
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To: flair2000
Incorrect. Nowhere in Scripture can it be found that Mary and Joseph had children or engaged in sexual relations. It is a common misconception by those who reject the Blessed Virgin Marys' perpetual virginity; which is supported by the Church Fathers and Protestants like Luther, Calvin and Zwingli, amongst others, that Mary had children besides Jesus. Scripture does not even mention Joseph after Christ is found at the age of twelve teaching in the temple. Scripture makes no mention of Mary remarrying. Jesus is always referred to as the Son of Mary, never a Son of Mary. If any of the Apostles were blood brothers of Jesus then Jesus, in accordance with Jewish custom, would not have had to entrust Her care to John as He died on the cross. Since we know that Jesus was Marys' firstborn, a term which does not mean there were others to follow, then those who some claim were His brothers would have been violating Jewish custom by giving an older brother advice and trying to restrain him.

Linguistic literalists who incorrectly interpret brother, sister, brethren, until, firstborn and who do not understand Aramaic add to Scripture by saying Mary had other children. If you would like more information along with additional Biblical proof that Jesus was Marys' only child, please let me know.

50 posted on 04/24/2002 7:15:05 AM PDT by SMEDLEYBUTLER
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To: Alberta's Child; history_matters
Thanks so much for your kind words.
51 posted on 04/24/2002 10:37:47 AM PDT by Victoria Delsoul
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To: Alberta's Child
Thanks for the nomination! };^D)
52 posted on 04/24/2002 11:02:40 AM PDT by RJayneJ
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To: Victoria Delsoul
Don't mention it -- I know quality when I see it!

;-)

53 posted on 04/24/2002 11:21:00 AM PDT by Alberta's Child
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