Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: Diamond
I'm probably sounding like a skipping CD at this point, but we certainly don't think that animals, who at least act as if they have a desire to live, are morally responsible for deceiving and killing one another. The article describes the understanding and manipulation of deception, not as dysfuntion, but as a "renaissance in thinking", an "awakening of the mind" that occured through natural selection as animals evolved strategies to dupe opponents and reap the rewards of competitive struggle. What rationale can be given as to why should we not also regard Eichmann's cunning use of deception as also just a product of that evolutionary struggle?

The question almost answers itself, really. Look back at that passage - in all those examples, who is being deceived? Are those examples of intra-species deception, or inter-species deception?

They're all examples of inter-species deception, of course. The firefly doesn't seek to deceive his own, but others, from outside the community. When faced with the "other" from outside the community, and survival is at stake, then deception is very much an appropriate and adaptive strategy. But when directed against one's own, and the members of one's own community or species, then it is dysfunctional if widely practiced.

Who you are deceiving, and why, does make some difference, I think you must agree. After all, you said almost as much, by noting that these were deceptions of "opponents" ;)

691 posted on 05/14/2002 1:57:32 PM PDT by general_re
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 687 | View Replies ]


To: general_re
Chimpanzees have been known to deceive others in their group to keep choice treats for themselves...
692 posted on 05/14/2002 2:05:11 PM PDT by Junior
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 691 | View Replies ]

To: general_re
They're all examples of inter-species deception, of course. The firefly doesn't seek to deceive his own, but others, from outside the community. When faced with the "other" from outside the community, and survival is at stake, then deception is very much an appropriate and adaptive strategy. But when directed against one's own, and the members of one's own community or species, then it is dysfunctional if widely practiced....

But I don't think that this changes the basic thrust of my argument that when such practices become widespread, it is dysfunctional. Even among chimps, deception of one's mates is limited to specific circumstances like this, and done occasionally, not as a matter of course. When it becomes the norm, and deception is constant and present in most or all aspects of daily interaction, then society breaks down, and the group suffers, along with all the individuals in it.

I still say that by definition, an evolutionary process cannot be dysfuntional. But even if it were in some sense, the basic thrust of my argument is still that we don't regard what chimpanzees do as morally wrong, even if they were to wipe their entire species out deceiving one anaother. If Eichmann was just as much a product of evolution as chimpanzees, then he was no more wrong than they in deceiving those he regarded as his opponnents. My point is that a culturaly normative moral system that evolves and changes relative to cultures does not give an adequate accounting of what we both viscerally perceive as the hideously and murderously cruel, despicable, immoral acts of Adolph Eichmann.

Cordially,

699 posted on 05/16/2002 5:13:47 AM PDT by Diamond
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 691 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson