[history_matters]

A First Saturday read ...

Mary, Queen of All Saints, pray for us.

[history_matters]

Indexing

[history_matters]

A worthy read BUMP....

[history_matters]

A humble bump....

[Brian Kopp DPM]

ping!

[SMEDLEYBUTLER]

"sexually conflicted men."

Mr. Eleanor Clift is a member of that group.

[wimpycat]

I like most of the article, in fact, because I said almost the same thing on another thread the other day, that this scandal is being used as a vehicle for a larger attack on the Catholic Church as a whole, and by extension, all of Christendom.

Where the author stumbles is in his attempt (rightly or wrongly) to minimize the situation by haggling over semantics and the difference between boys under 12 and boys between 12-17. Trying to split hairs between pedophilia and garden variety boy-buggering to lessen the offense is not helpful.

IMHO, the Catholic Church just needs to take its lumps, be more careful who they ordain in the future, defrock child-molesting priests and hand them over to authorities (after the Church determines their guilt separately in a Church inquiry) and get on with it.

[muawiyah]

What Eleanor Clift says about anything is irrelevant. The woman wouldn't last ten minutes in a Moslem country, for instance.

This type of scandal is going to pop up from time to time in any organization that has a self-perpetuating hierarchy. Eliminating the hierarchy merely contains the scandal to a smaller institution, e.g. a single church. The RC church probably should not be reorganized as a result of this particular dustup, nor should it's lay members all join the Methodist Church.

Transferring church property titles to lay church committees might help because this would eliminate real estate management from the local bishop's portfolio. This, in turn might enable him to pay more attention to the moral strength of the priests who work for him. (The Orthodox do this.)

[SuziQ]

Sounds like my brother in law!! But actually he has a new bishop who he likes and respects very much. And he has a new seminarian who he's calling his 'canary in the coal mine'. He's told this young man that if he gets ANY feeling that anything strange is going on to call him IMMEDIATELY and he'll call the Bishop!

[Slyfox]

Miss Dowd lumped together in one paragraph "the church subsidizing pedophilia" along with "Taliban obliteration of women; the brotherhood of al-Qaeda and Mohamed Atta´s misogynistic funeral instructions; the implosion of the macho Enron Ponzi scheme."

All of these 'Catholic in name only' Catholic-bashers are the very same ones who have pushed organizations like WomanChurch and Call to Action down our throats. These radical 'clubs' are the very ones which have endorsed gay and lesbian ministers, and which have brought us to this point of spiritual misery. Have they just forgotten their past endorsements or are they just attempting to cover their backsides just in case somebody does a Nexis search on them?

[chatham]

Eleanor Clift is part of the Kneepad groupies who live in a parralel universe from the rest of society.

I can't believe anyone listens to her anymore she is such a twit.

The problem in the church is Homosexuality run amok and protected by Stupid Old men who can't think straight and should have been put out long ago.

Law ,Egan, Mahoney, McCormack et al. don't have the brains they were born with and must be replaced with vital men with Courage,Backbone and are committed to lead the Church in line with the teachings and example of Jesus Christ.

Now Law's latest caper should put him right up there with the most stupid and arrogant Idiots in the world.

[ladyinred]

And we all thought the word Hypocrite applied only to Church members!

[RnMomof7]

Glad you are still here

As reported by Zenit news agency, writing an op-ed piece in the New York Times on March 20 Miss Dowd lumped together in one paragraph "the church subsidizing pedophilia" along with "Taliban obliteration of women; the brotherhood of al-Qaeda and Mohamed Atta´s misogynistic funeral instructions; the implosion of the macho Enron Ponzi scheme."

Having been called "talibornagain" right here on FR I understand that the slander of the church has to do with a society that is so irreligious that they can not seperate a murderous cult and a faith that seeks to glorify God...it is a sign of the times..today it is the Catholics..not long ago it was Evangelical Protestants (remember Swaggart and Baker) and when they are done with you all watch for the Reformed church to get it. The devil (aan old fashioned concept) loves to slander the church..

[harpo11]

"If anything good can come out of the scandal it will be the reinvigoration of the Church contra mundi - what is was meant to be."

That is the shining truth of my faith! I believe that the Church will do more to root out this horrorible disease
more so than our secular society is willing or inclined to do. In God We Trust!

[victim soul]

Thanks - I knew this - but I needed to hear it again. Any Catholic Diocesan newspaper who publishes Mc Brien now should receive his quotes - and asked by faithful Catholics to cancel his column.

The dissidents indeed know -- that their time is limited.

We need to return to one, holy, catholic and apostolic church.

[razorbak]

When I lived in Southern Illinois, almost every priest in the Belleville diocese was exposed as having sexually abused young males. They were not prosecuted. They were wisked away for some sort of "therapy" and reassigned after their therapy. I assume the families were paid off in some settlement. This has been going on for centuries with the full knowledge and approval of the pope and the church heirarchy. Even now, the RCC and the Pope will not show these perverted reprobates the door the minute they are proven to have sexually molested a child or adolescent. They are going to wait until its a proven "notorius of behavior." Imagine all of the abuse cases that never see the light of day in other countries because of the culture, or even in America because the shame and embarrassment the victim would feel if it became public.

A celibate priesthood is both unnatural and unscriptural as a requirement for ministry. If, however, someone chooses that lifestyle, then that is fine. There were no priests (as a special church office) in the New Testament as there had been in the Old Testament--and the bishops-pastors-elders were commanded to be married [Old Testament priests were married also]. We need neither a priest nor a pope. Christ is our high priest and all believers are priests who can go directly to God with their prayers and confessions of sin.

Hebrews 7:22 by so much more Jesus has become a surety of a better covenant. 23 Also there were many priests, because they were prevented by death from continuing. 24 But He, because He continues forever, has an unchangeable priesthood. 25 Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them. 26 For such a High Priest was fitting for us, [who] [is] holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens; 27 who does not need daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the people's, for this He did once for all when He offered up Himself. 28 For the law appoints as high priests men who have weakness, but the word of the oath, which came after the law, [appoints] the Son who has been perfected forever. 8:1 Now [this] [is] the main point of the things we are saying: We have such a High Priest , who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, 1 Timothy 2:5 For [there] [is] one God and one Mediator between God and men, [the] Man Christ Jesus,

Rev.1:5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth. To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, 6 and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him [be] glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

1 Peter 2:5 you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood , to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.6 Therefore it is also contained in the Scripture, "Behold, I lay in Zion A chief cornerstone, elect, precious, And he who believes on Him will by no means be put to shame." 7 Therefore, to you who believe, [He] [is] precious; but to those who are disobedient, "The stone which the builders rejected Has become the chief cornerstone," 8 and "A stone of stumbling And a rock of offense." They stumble, being disobedient to the word, to which they also were appointed. 9 But you [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood , a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10 who once [were] not a people but [are] now the people of God, who had not obtained mercy but now have obtained mercy.

1 Timothy 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife , temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach;

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, 3 forbidding to marry, [and] [commanding] to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.

1 Timothy 2:5 For [there] [is] one God and one Mediator between God and men, {i.e.:not Mary}[the] Man Christ Jesus,

[Siobhan]

A bump for an older thread posted by my father.

Bernadette.