HOME SCHOOL EXPEDITION UNCOVERS RARE ALLOSAUR and GIANT SAUROPOD

Vision Forum ^ | 05.20.02 | Vision Forum

[medved]

But, hell, what do I know? I am, as medved points out, "ignorant."

Merely stating the obvious....

[Elsie]

San Rafael Swell in Black Dragon Wash, Utah:

I've been there and took my own pictures. It is NEAT!

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Just west of the 24 exit (a few miles past Green River, UT) you just pull off the north side of the Interstate, drive up to the fence, OPEN IT, and drive thru in the sand! (Don't forget to close the fence behind you.) The wash is just about a 1/2 north of the road, and, if you are lucky, there may even be a BLM sign or two to direct you!

[Future Snake Eater]

So none of this makes a lot of sense any way you cut it -- unless, of course, you've already made up your mind and are looking for evidence to back up what you already believe. Which is, unfortunately, how most people make their decisions.

I don't see how it disproves evolution either. It could, however, completely disrupt the timeline of the Earth as put forth by evolutionists (which, I know, still wouldn't disprove it, but it sure as hell would show that their ideas are greatly flawed, to be sure). I've always found the albeit questionable evidence that humans and dinosaurs walked together very interesting, and it's staggered me how people will totally scoff at its potential and completely ignore it b/c it doesn't fit into their preconceived notions. For being open-minded, objective scientist types, they sure are closed off to new ideas.

[Elsie]

And even a couple of bones can be instructive, depending on their relationship to each other when found, and which bones they are.

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And this is just what the DC police are trying to find out in the Chandra Levy death.........

[john in missouri]

I believe Carson of Venus dispatched that chicken-of-the-sea with little trouble.

Ah. Carson, was it? Didn't recognize 'im. I needn't have worried!

[Future Snake Eater]

See my post #63. Wordsmith, as to your observation of the hunters, was it not common for Indians to wear horns and/or other such decorations when hunting or fighting? That would certainly fit into that picture.

[john in missouri]

For being open-minded, objective scientist types, they sure are closed off to new ideas.

I've no doubt this is true. But the other problem is that people put forward a lot of stuff (like some of the stuff in this thread) as "proof", that just simply doesn't cut the mustard. This is especially done by people who have a viewpoint which seems to be arrived at via religion, and then is to be backed up by whatever proof they can find for it, never mind whether the proof really holds water or not. (And I'm not just picking people with a Christian world view, because I am one. When I say "religion," it could just as well be the anti-supernaturalist religion...)

I actually see quite a bit of this when it comes to the Shroud of Turin. And I see it on both sides. There's a LOT of junk science like supposedly seeing coins with an image of Caesar on the eyelids. It's actually rather similar to looking at a squiggle on a rock and being certain it depicts a brontosaurus.

On the other side, a supposedly "scientific" and "skeptical" organization, CSICOP, made the biggest hatchet job of a "scientific investigation," in their treatment of the Shroud, that I think I've ever seen. Utterly disgraceful. Basically what they did was pick the ONLY scientist who claims the Shroud is a painting, declare his opinion absolutely authoritative, and proclaim that any other theory (of which there are many) was obviously unscientific idiocy.

As for any and all evidence that conflicted with their theory (which, again, there is plenty) -- they simply pretended it didn't exist.

[john in missouri]

Merely stating the obvious....

You know, buddy, you posted an assertion that made no sense to anybody with one eye and half sense. Fine. It's your right to do that.

I posted something, in fun, which showed how completely silly, weak and illogical your assertion was. For that, you attacked me as being "ignorant."

I don't know what more I can say. Your actions and attitude speak for themselves.

[john in missouri]

I don't see how it disproves evolution either. It could, however, completely disrupt the timeline of the Earth as put forth by evolutionists (which, I know, still wouldn't disprove it, but it sure as hell would show that their ideas are greatly flawed, to be sure).

I should respond to this. What you say is, of course, true.

[ClassicConservative]

None of this was in the Bible, so it isn't true.

I guess you don't believe in computers or airplanes, either...

[Physicist]

"The story behind the location of this site is perhaps the greatest miracle," said DeRosa. "Through a series of remarkable events, more than 120 acres fell into the hands of the current owners, a Christian home schooling couple committed to biblical creationism."

The best thing about this discovery is that it might inspire some of these kids to learn the truth about nature, in spite of their upbringing.

[jude24]

Apologetics is defined as the study of the defenses of the Christian faith, especially.

[mass55th]

"Apologetics is defined as the study of the defenses of the Christian faith, especially."

Thank you very much!!!

[Future Snake Eater]

I've attended a seminar given by Dr. Tom D'Mahala, the head of an in-depth research team that studied the Shroud of Turin for several weeks. He systematically shot down the "painting" argument through purely observational findings, not even having to stretch any scientific data. The whole seminar was fascinating.

[Registered]

...is that it might inspire some of these kids to learn the truth about nature

Or spur them on to worship and be in awe of the Creator that made the little and the small.

[RepRivFarm]

The central issue, I believe, is whether or not direct encounter with living dinosaurs is the only plausible explanation for the pictographs. I think not. Just off the top of my head, I can think of several. The possibility that Indians extrapolated from fossils encountered by themselves or others during their many years of close familiarity with the American landscape. The possibility that Indians participated in cross-cultural exchange of stories that became mythological raw material during contacts with travellers from other civilizations, such as African or Oriental or European ocean travellers with extensive mythological beastiaries of their own. The possibility that Indian shamans experienced during the altered state of consciousness of a dream or trance images that were later portrayed as mythical creatures that conceivably resemble dinosaurs. Even the possibility that the petroglyphs are fakes.

Hmmmmm....I wonder which one of these possibilites best meets the requirements of Occam's Razor?

[kitchen]

Skull Creek is just down the road a bit. (The county is about the size of Connecticut.) There are a lot of interesting things here, but most are afraid the fed alphabet agencies will be on top of them if they talk. The local rag missed this story; understandable, since they're all either rejects from Ski Town, USA, or just out of j-school. Not a lot of trusting relationships develop and they consequently miss the boat with great regularity.

[Lurking Libertarian]

...is that it might inspire some of these kids to learn the truth about nature

Or spur them on to worship and be in awe of the Creator that made the little and the small

Or, preferably, both.

LL (Theistic Evolutionist)

[Wordsmith]

Amen!

[Wordsmith]

Wordsmith, as to your observation of the hunters, was it not common for Indians to wear horns and/or other such decorations when hunting or fighting? That would certainly fit into that picture.

Agreed. I don't know about the tribal history of this specific region, but there is extensive general evidence of Indian shamanic traditions that involved writing petroglyphs while on vision quests. This included depicting scenes and creatures experienced in mystical visions, stories of which include visions of men that really had antlers. If this is what is being portrayed in this petroglyph, it is reasonable to consider that the creatures depicted are also creatures seen in a mystical vision. Indian anthropology is a fascinating subject though, and I highly recommend to anyone interested studying it at length. My concern is that in this case some folks appear to be cherry picking in order to support a particular worldview rather than studying the field as a whole. God Bless.