Posted on 05/23/2002 11:22:21 AM PDT by grundle
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/johnmccaslin/jm20020520.shtml
Beltway Beat: Divided democrats
Democrats are champions of wind power as a clean and efficient energy source - except when it's blowing in their own back yard.
If two senators could ever be stuck between a rock and well, a windmill, that's where you'll find outspoken environmental stewards Sens. Edward M. Kennedy and John Kerry, both Massachusetts Democrats.
A consortium called Cape Wind Associates - wouldn't you know a large contributor to Kerry's campaign as he tests the presidential waters of 2004 - has proposed erecting 170 windmills, each 40 stories tall, across the waters of Nantucket Sound. A wind farm, if you will, barely eight miles from Kennedy's beloved Martha's Vineyard.
Not so fast, says Kennedy, who in one of his rare, quieter moments sought and received approval in Congress for Uncle Sam to enter the sound and have a closer look at what detrimental impact the otherwise environmentally sound cluster of windmills might have on the environment.
"That's the kind of analysis we need," Kerry informs the Boston Herald. "People are raising the issue of whether there is a federal role here."
What the two Democrats aren't saying is that if/when the windmills get churning, they would handle half of the Massachusetts coastal area's growing energy needs.
One senior Bush administration official, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said: "This proves once and for all that Sen. Kerry offers nothing more than hot air when it comes to wind energy."
I was the chief project engineer on an electric utility 25 MW windfarm project that was eventually cancelled. People brought up EMF, TV/radio interference, bird strikes, visual polution, noise, damage to local climate, all kinds of things. Somebody is against everything, especially if it is in their back yard.
I was also the chief licensing/permitting engineer on another power project that included a letter protesting the development by a branch of the Sierra Club to anything that included wind, solar (yes solar), ocean thermal, geothermal, coal, nuclear, combined cycle combustion turbines, etc. Like I said they were against, wind, solar, ocean thermal, geothermal, the whole nine yards.
To some environmentalist and liberals, just like guns, energy generation is inherently evil and must be stopped. After all Ammory Lovins once said giving the US an abundant supply of cheap energy would be the moral equivalent of giving an idiot child a machine gun.
You can bet that if the environmentalists manage to plaster the landscape with windmills, ten or twenty years from now they will be agitating to take them all down again, just like they are tearing down all those clean, energy-renewable, expensive dams on all the our rivers.
"Eh, what are you doing? I don't want those ugly windmills to spoil my view, get them out of here".
Signed
Ed, Fatso The Lush, Kennedy
I was the salesman and consultant for a small (8MW) cogeneration system in CA and experienced similar problems getting it permitted even though we were lowering the company's total emmissions.. We succeeded by hiring politically connected consultants.
We know that the environmentalists, just like the feminists and all other front organizations the left hides behind, care nothing about their supposed causes but are instead only interested in retarding American progress. They are anti-American, period. Too bad our natural compassion and sense of fair play make us patsies for those schemers.
COOL! I'm not worthy!
Too bad it was cancelled. I'm amazed to hear that anyone could be against wind power. They are the perfect solution to all of our energy problems.
Radioactive waste is bad
I consulted for 2 power companies and found out that wind farms require about 35 acres of land to generate 50MW,
so
and it is very noisy.
This is plain BS.
I couldn't even hear the NEG Micon 900/52 from 300 yards away. The 20 MPH wind was 100 times more noisy.
Nuclear waste is not really a problem as all plants built after 1985 have to provide thier own spent fuel storage for no less than 40 years. Hospitals, especially those that treat cancer are the nations largest producers of radio active waste and yet everyone always wants to attack the power industry.
I don't believe this at all.
In areas that have lots of electric space heating (not much anymore), when storms come in and the wind blows, heat loss from homes goes up dramatically making the windmill power coincide with the need for electricity. That is a great match. Most of the rest of the time, they are just fuel saving devices, where you still need to invest capital in another form of power plant to carry the main power load.
They do have their place, but it is not a universal fix.
Germany and Denmark have sure proven that. Iowa probably produces the most wind power per capita in this country. We have barely scratched the surface of what is readily available. There is a lot of resistance to wind power though and it has more to do with not liking the people who like wind power than any logical argument. I see a lot of that between the FR and the DU.
Yeah, you are probably correct. My biggest concern on the windproject I have looked at was with the people developing the wind farms.
I had a huge argument with a developer over what was an "all weather road." He thought it was something you made with an I-beam that you dragged behind a truck. I explained that since Roman times a "road" was crowned for drainage, had balast and a top material. The idea of bringing in crushed rock and crowning the road was foreign to this guy.
Another experience was that windy areas are usually dry and so are subject to wildfires. Well, I wanted to have some fire breaks in the wind farm design and use some special overhead power fuses to reduce the chance of sparks and fires. The developer thought this was crazy talk.
Yep, it does seem to be some of the people. Seriously, wind power in the right location with the right developer can be a very good resource. There are too many builders who have no idea what they are doing that have tried to develop wind resources. You are right that noise isn't a real problem for most new technologies. Most of the "real objections" are just a smokescreen for not wanting something built, with the exception of economics. Economics is the hard reality of wind farm development.
Locations are definitely important. I hear that N. Dakota is the Saudi Arabia of wind yet there is only a single windmill there. They also have more electricity than they need and they have a lot of raptors which will cause the bird societies to get involved. We certainly don't want to be killing too many eagles and hawks.
The economics seems to work very well with the 1.7 cent PTC. As the technology continues to bring the prices down I would either expect wind to develop faster than the available money from the PTC or the PTC will have to start shrinking to less than 1.7 cents per kwhr.
You are right about the arguments against wind. They are starting to sound very contrived and come from people who have some other issues of their own to get over.
A building or a dam at least has form...not just a pole with a prop.
170 windmills, each 40 stories tall,....GAG!
I have no idea where you are getting those numbers, but the last time I looked wind was pretty expensive about 6 cents per kwh, but the tax subsidies helped bring it down into the competitive price range. One of the things not well discussed is the amount of blade maintenance (i.e. cleaning) and other kinds of maintenance required. Depending upon tower height and design (read that trade offs between high initial cost versus high maintenance cost) maintanence at a wind farm can be surprisingly expensive. Unless of course you just run them till they fail as some developers have done. Everything I have seen does not indicate that wind is a "cheap source" of energy. It may be cost effective under certain high fuel cost or inflation assumptions and certain tax credit assumptions, but by itself it is not cheap, at least from what I have seen. The firm I am with has recently worked with some folks trying to come up with fairly priced land leases for windfarms, so I don't think my economics are too far off base from the projects I have been involved with in the past.
You understand!
I was the lead licensing engineer for two different power plants on the big island of Hawaii. We were looking at a quick expansion of the Keahole plant and a long term larger power plant at Puu Anahula (sp?) on the Kona Coast. There were rolling brownouts because of problems with the old sugar cane bio-mass power plants and all the load growth of resorts and condo's.
The North Island Serria Club sent a letter of protest during our EIS process stating they had a better alternative solution to the rolling brown out problem than adding a new power plant quickly. Their sollution was a well defined conservation program of equivalent magnatude to our proposed combined cycle combusiton turbine. Unfortunately, it would take 20 years of implementation before it would reach the same amount of power that our alternative would provide within 18 months. So they were willing to live with brownouts forever. At least that was my conclusion after analyzing the letter in my comments published in the EIS.
They also objected to wind (too visually intrusive and would harm tourism); solar (takes up too much land); geothermal (there were sulfur spills at a well blow out and it was messing with native Hawaiian religious issues); ocean thermal (you might harm fish populations); coal (air pollution and requires too much land); combined cycle combustion turbines fueled by diesel (air pollution and uses too much water); bio-mass (they had tried that and land was too valuable to use on any kind of fuel crop production); nuclear (come on now this is Hawaii). In the end the Sierra Club said that the only thing that was acceptable was conservation.
It was an eye opening experience, expecially since there was an existing shortage of power.
Well, the Production Tax Credit gives wind power producers an extra 1.7 cents per kwhr. They add that to what ever they charge on the market and they are supposedly able to make a profit with it. I assume that someone is making a profit.
but the last time I looked wind was pretty expensive about 6 cents per kwh,
I've heard electricity prices from 2 cents all the way to over a dollar per kwhr in California. I think I pay 7 cents here in Iowa. I guess to say "pretty expensive" doesn't quantify it. Pretty expensive could mean that my cost for the electricity goes up 20 percent or 200 percent. If it were only 20 percent for all wind power I'd call that cheap. 200 percent is a different story.
but the tax subsidies helped bring it down into the competitive price range. One of the things not well discussed is the amount of blade maintenance (i.e. cleaning) and other kinds of maintenance required. Depending upon tower height and design (read that trade offs between high initial cost versus high maintenance cost) maintanence at a wind farm can be surprisingly expensive. Unless of course you just run them till they fail as some developers have done.
That would have to be some of the failed developments in California. Those are overpriced inefficient little toys compared to todays windmills. What kind of windmills did you look at when you were trying to develop a project?
The new Lagerwey 2.0 MW 72 meter windmill has no transmission and only needs to be serviced once per year. The others need service twice per year. I know that the junky 80-120 kw units in california need lots of service but in the last 20 years things have improved by about a factor of 10 overall cost of electricity.
Yes, this seems to be the position a lot of these Luddites take. Yet, when I debate with some of the people who seem to hold these positions, and ask them, okay, what is the source of the energy you propose to conserve, I get the deer in the headlights look, and, on occasion, some muttering about me being a racist or sexist or homophobe or something or other.
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