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Mexicans, Legal & Illegal, Transform USA
National Anxiety Center ^ | May 29, 2002 | Alan Caruba

Posted on 05/29/2002 2:42:12 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe

The 2000 Census revealed that, in at least 13 States surveyed to date, more US residents are speaking Spanish at home. Not English. This is the result of nation’s growing Hispanic population throughout the 1990s. It has risen an astonishing 58 percent to 35.3 million.

In some places such as California, native-born English-speaking business owners are taking Spanish lessons or hiring bilingual employees. Speaking Spanish at home is fine with me, but taking it out to the larger community and, in effect, requiring that it too speak Spanish is just dead wrong. A common language binds Americans to one another. Two languages in the same nation creates two separate communities.

The flow of illegal aliens from Mexico and nations further south is a virtual torrent. In the first six months of this year, the US Border Patrol apprehended 176,655 illegal aliens in just the 21-mile Douglas, Arizona, section alone! The same individual may be apprehended more than once and the Border Patrol estimates that, for every one that is caught, three to five are not! Since 1983, at least a half-million illegal aliens have entered the US from our southern border.

A study by the non-profit Center for Immigration Studies confirms that "annual immigration in 2030 will still approach 400,000 a year, 8.3 to 11.4 percent higher than the 370,000 estimated for 2000." The Mexican-born population of the United States will double to 18 million by the year 2030. There is a powerful incentive for this because, in the last decade, Mexican immigrants sent more than $45 billion to their relatives. In 2000, they sent $6 billion or about $17 million a day!

Federal investigators recently revealed that "tens of thousands of foreigners are illegally obtaining Social Security numbers by using fake documents involving identity theft and other crimes. Federal officials have not yet found a way to search US immigration records to prevent the practice. Using the Social Security identification, the next step is to secure credit cards and even security clearances that permit illegal aliens to work in sensitive areas such as airports. In 200l, the Social Security Administration issued 5.8 million numbers, including 1.5 million to non-citizens.

On May 5th, both the Washington Post and Washington Times reported that the families of eleven illegal immigrants who died while attempting to enter the United States had filed a $41 million lawsuit against two federal agencies. Allow me to provide my standard disclaimer. I do not dislike Mexicans. I don’t even know a Mexican. If a Mexican has come here legally and become an American citizen, bravo! I have no problem with that, but the notion that the United States should be sued because it did not tend to the needs of those entering illegally is just nuts!

According to them, the failure of the United States, specifically the Department of Interior and the US Fish and Wildlife Service, to provide water to Mexicans trying to sneak into America, was the reason they died. Their bodies were found last year in the Cabeza Prieta National Wildlife Refuge between Tucson and Yuma. That area was being used because, say the attorneys for the families, the US Border Patrol has effectively shut down more populous portions of the Arizona border, thereby forcing illegal aliens to come in through more remote areas.

Well, it should be obvious that the US is to blame, right? Why should we stop at providing water in a desolate desert where ground temperatures can exceed 130 degrees in the summer? Why not a fulltime bus service? Or chauffeured limousines? This Mexican version of an Alice in Wonderland approach to illegal immigration is why, in 1997, according to the Immigration and Naturalization Service, 54% of all illegal immigrants coming into the US were Mexicans.

Could this be because elements of the Mexican government are carrying out a strategic depopulation program, centered around approximately ninety communities in central and southern Mexico? Some informed sources believe this to be the case. Making matters worse, according to Rep. Tom Tancredo (CO-R), since 1996 there have been 118 incursions across the border into the US; 61 by Mexican military and 57 by Mexican law enforcement. At least 60% of the time, the Mexicans were armed. Sometimes US Border guards come under fire.

The INS estimates that, in the past three years, more than a thousand migrants have died of various causes trying to enter the United States illegally. Their deaths, each one of them, were a tragedy, but it seems to me that it is a greater tragedy that Mexico does nothing to stem this human traffic. Maybe if Mexico took steps to improve its economy and provide jobs for its people, they would be working in Mexico instead of sneaking across the border?

And maybe President Bush’s enthusiastic support for yet another amnesty program for illegal aliens is one of the dumbest ideas he’s ever had? We are talking about adding another 200,000 illegal Mexican immigrants to the population. That’s equivalent to adding a city the size of Baton Rouge, Bakersfield or Mobile. All this does is say to Mexicans that, if they can get into the US, they have a fair chance of going to the head of the line when the next amnesty comes. No need to apply for citizenship like others do. No need to come here, get a Green Card, and earn the right to be a citizen. Just sneak across the border.

Our immigration policies are so stupid that the House Judiciary Committee recently voted out Rep. Barney Frank’s HR 1452, misnamed the Family Reunion Act, but in fact is legislation that would permit foreign criminals to stay in this country! It has 52 sponsors, most of whom are from the far Left of the Democrat Party, but that is not a long distance to traverse. The bill would erase the reforms achieved in the landmark 1996 immigration law requiring that, after serving their prison sentence here, they get deported.

This is why, at current rates, between legal and illegal immigration into this nation, we will double our population within the lifetimes of today’s college students.

In the last decade, the 11.2 million immigrants who arrived, plus the 6.4 million children born to immigrants living here, equaled almost 70% of the nation’s population growth. That’s just flat-out too much, too fast.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Mexico; News/Current Events; US: Arizona; US: California; US: New Mexico; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: amnesty; assimilation; aztlan; balkanization; bilingualism; border; immigrantlist; immigration; ins; mexico; reconquista
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1 posted on 05/29/2002 2:42:14 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Tailgunner Joe
Can someone please post an appropriate graphic showning transformation to third world status.It will comfort me.
2 posted on 05/29/2002 2:45:52 PM PDT by Amerigomag
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To: Tailgunner Joe
bump
3 posted on 05/29/2002 2:48:36 PM PDT by Black Agnes
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Comment #4 Removed by Moderator

To: Tailgunner Joe
Congress and GWB are going to continue pushing 245(i) - the amnesty for illegals amendment. If they can't get it passed before the 2002 elections, they know they can after the election--when it is safer to do so. They won't stop until they get it passed--unless those like Tancredo can gain enough support to stop it.
5 posted on 05/29/2002 2:53:28 PM PDT by TomGuy
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To: Tailgunner Joe
"It has risen an astonishing 58 percent to 35.3 million."

Finally, someone comes out with a reasonably believable figgure as to how many illegals are here.

285,000,000 U.S. Population
35,300,000 Illegal Mexicans
249,700,000 How many of this remaining figgure are illegals from other countries? Fifteen million? Twenty million? How many are legal immigrants from third world nations? Ten to Twenty million, counting all forms of legal immigration including that ever gaping loop hole "Political Asylum"?

6 posted on 05/29/2002 3:05:24 PM PDT by MissAmericanPie
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To: Tailgunner Joe
This is why, at current rates, between legal and illegal immigration into this nation, we will double our population within the lifetimes of today’s college students.

In the last decade, the 11.2 million immigrants who arrived, plus the 6.4 million children born to immigrants living here, equaled almost 70% of the nation’s population growth. That’s just flat-out too much, too fast.

Hmm. Let's see...

Uncontrolled population growth is bad....unless it's the result of uncontrolled immigration.

Crime is bad....unless it's the result of aliens breaking immigration (and often other) laws.

Wage depression is bad...unless it happens because immigrants are "doing the jobs Americans won't do"...for the depressed wages.

Expansion of overtaxed state educational and welfare facilities is bad...unless necessary to accommodate an uncontrolled inflow of immigrants, both legal and illegal....I mean, "undocumented."

Leaving our borders undefended against hostile infiltration and incursion is bad...unless otherwise all those immigrants would have to enter the US legally, if at all.

OK, I think I got it now. I hope we all get it soon, before it gets us.

7 posted on 05/29/2002 3:05:30 PM PDT by Map Kernow
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To: *immigrant_list
*Index Bump
8 posted on 05/29/2002 3:32:37 PM PDT by Fish out of Water
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To: hannosh4LtGovernor
I'd vote for you in a New York City heartbeat!
9 posted on 05/29/2002 4:01:00 PM PDT by maxwellp
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To: healey22;lutine;Right_Makes_Might;wku man;sonofliberty2;fishing fool;kattracks;sarcasm...
I believe this whole thing will break loose within 12-18 months.
10 posted on 05/29/2002 6:50:54 PM PDT by Tancredo Fan
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To: hannosh4LtGovernor
You got my vote.
11 posted on 05/29/2002 6:52:17 PM PDT by Joe Hadenuf
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To: MissAmericanPie
Pretty sad statement. We don't even have an idea how many MILLIONS of illegal aliens are in our country, as many tune into the big game and enjoy the rapidly warming water.
12 posted on 05/29/2002 6:54:56 PM PDT by Joe Hadenuf
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To: TomGuy
Congress and GWB are going to continue pushing 245(i) - the amnesty for illegals amendment.

This, in my mind, is nothing less than a hostile act against the American people.

13 posted on 05/29/2002 6:59:52 PM PDT by Joe Hadenuf
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To: MissAmericanPie
35,300,000 Illegal Mexicans

It states the Hispanic population has grown 58% to 35.3 million. It does not state that those are illegals.

There are between 8 and 11 million illegal aliens in the US from all different countries, not just Mexico.

The remainder of the 35.3 million Hispanics are legal residents or first generation Americans.

14 posted on 05/29/2002 7:04:18 PM PDT by Marine Inspector
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To: hannosh4LtGovernor
You've got my vote, Paul. Of course I'll be outvoted by the illegals in my county.
15 posted on 05/29/2002 7:10:47 PM PDT by Bernard Marx
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To: Marine Inspector
But, I have heard border patrol dispute these figgures of 8 to 11 million. They say you can double and even triple the 8 or 11 million to get a more legitimate figgure.

I never seem to be able to trust Government numbers, or polls, or statistics, or promises. So you think it really is around 8 to 11 mil? Your's is an opinion I can respect.

16 posted on 05/29/2002 7:17:27 PM PDT by MissAmericanPie
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To: TomGuy
The downfall of Bush!
17 posted on 05/29/2002 7:46:22 PM PDT by doc
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To: MissAmericanPie
This is the result of nation’s growing Hispanic population throughout the 1990s. It has risen an astonishing 58 percent to 35.3 million.

Not to worry. They are only taking jobs which Americans don't wan't. Or jobs that Americans can't get because Affirmative Action also applies to these Border Bounders.

The really Big Losers? The "African-American" community, who have been pushed out of accessible jobs. When the Hispanics start closing in on Public Safety, Public School, and the other areas of the Public Sector, like Welfare Departments, there's going to be blood in the corridors as they challenge what the present recumbents regard as their race-based entitlements.

18 posted on 05/29/2002 7:51:26 PM PDT by Kenny Bunk
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To: Marine Inspector
Based on your experience, do you agree with the estimate that the Border Patrol is only stopping 16 to 25 percent of all of the illegals trying to enter the country?

Do you believe we could stop 90 percent with 30' high, guarded walls?

How deep would the foundation have to be to prevent tunneling?

19 posted on 05/29/2002 8:10:42 PM PDT by 4Freedom
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To: Kenny Bunk
Not to worry. They are only taking jobs which Americans don't wan't.

Wouldnt it be more accurate to say that you dont care because you dont percieve it to be affecting you personally. It must be nice and cheap to be so charitable when your giving away things that dont matter to you, or belong to you.

20 posted on 05/29/2002 8:25:42 PM PDT by PuNcH
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To: hannosh4LtGovernor
You have my vote, and I have told all my friends about you. California needs you!
21 posted on 05/29/2002 8:33:30 PM PDT by janetgreen
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To: MissAmericanPie
These are the numbers I believe are the best estimate. They come from the Census Bureau and independent immigration experts. No one knows for sure, but I would say these are probable pretty close to the actual figure.

The numbers the Border Patrol talks about are for apprehensions. They state that that they apprehend about 20% of the illegals crossing the border, while the above experts believe its about 10%.

22 posted on 05/29/2002 8:46:06 PM PDT by Marine Inspector
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To: TomGuy
Congress and GWB are going to continue pushing 245(i) - the amnesty for illegals amendment. If they can't get it passed before the 2002 elections, they know they can after the election--when it is safer to do so. They won't stop until they get it passed--unless those like Tancredo can gain enough support to stop it.

Yep, that is the plan. This issue will come back to haunt Bush but then again I don't think he cares. The rear end view of a Mexican Donkey must be the Bush family's coat of arms.

23 posted on 05/29/2002 8:52:44 PM PDT by WRhine
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To: 4Freedom
Based on your experience, do you agree with the estimate that the Border Patrol is only stopping 16 to 25 percent of all of the illegals trying to enter the country?

It’s close. The last estimate by the Border Patrol was approximately 20%, but I believe it to be higher.

Do you believe we could stop 90 percent with 30' high, guarded walls?

No. First off, it would be impossible to build a 30’ high guarded wall along the entire southern border. Second, if it’s guarded, why build the wall, just have the people. It cost less. The maintenance cost of the wall would be astronomical.

How deep would the foundation have to be to prevent tunneling?

Pretty deep.

If you wish to stop the flow of illegals, then take away all welfare, jail anyone who hires them and take their businesses, and help build Mexico’s economy.

If there is not job or benefit in coming to the US, and the Mexican economy is good, they won’t come.

24 posted on 05/29/2002 8:56:12 PM PDT by Marine Inspector
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To: travelgirl;TheBattman;Budge;wirestripper;pulaskibush
You might want to bookmark this one for future reference.
25 posted on 05/29/2002 9:06:36 PM PDT by sweetliberty
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To: Kenny Bunk
The really Big Losers? The "African-American" community, who have been pushed out of accessible jobs. When the Hispanics start closing in on Public Safety, Public School, and the other areas of the Public Sector, like Welfare Departments, there's going to be blood in the corridors as they challenge what the present recumbents regard as their race-based entitlements.

Right on the mark and Jorge Bush is only giving the black community more reasons to vote against him. Only a FOOL would write off the significant African-American vote to try to grab a small new slice of the hispanic vote when his conservative base is in a state of revolt...like in 1992.

26 posted on 05/29/2002 9:09:45 PM PDT by WRhine
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To: Marine Inspector
If you wish to stop the flow of illegals, then take away all welfare, jail anyone who hires them and take their businesses, and help build Mexico's economy.

This makes sense to me. What I want to know is this: why doesn't Bush implement any of these measures?? I find it hard to believe he would put the illegal votes of these people ahead of the good of this country, but it's true. Juan-termer Bush!

27 posted on 05/29/2002 9:22:49 PM PDT by dougherty
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To: WRhine
Right on the mark and Jorge Bush is only giving the black community more reasons to vote against him. Only a FOOL would write off the significant African-American vote to try to grab a small new slice of the hispanic vote when his conservative base is in a state of revolt

In Tuesday's edition of the Houston Chronicle there was an article and survey over immigration. It said the Hispanic community, legal and illegal, were overwhelmingly in favor of continued mass immigration. The group that was least in favor of current immigration levels? Blacks.

28 posted on 05/29/2002 9:27:07 PM PDT by dougherty
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To: Tailgunner Joe
Isnt nice to know that a foreign nation is illegally transforming our country, and rather then protecting us, our elected officials are busy sucking up to the soon to be conqueror who will soon control the majority of the vote. Our politicians are not looking out for our own interests, they are looking out for their own careers.
29 posted on 05/29/2002 9:29:17 PM PDT by Godel
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To: Tailgunner Joe
Mexicans, Legal & Illegal, Transform USA

...into Mexico.

Tuor

30 posted on 05/29/2002 9:33:48 PM PDT by Tuor
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To: Godel
Our politicians are not looking out for our own interests, they are looking out for their own careers.

More specifically, Bush is not looking out for our own interests...he is looking out for his own career.

31 posted on 05/29/2002 9:36:41 PM PDT by HennepinPrisoner
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To: PuNcH
I reckon you missed that one, PuNcH. I'll try and make the irony a bit less oblique for you in the future.

OTOH, one can always try reading the next sentence.

32 posted on 05/29/2002 9:40:54 PM PDT by Kenny Bunk
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To: Marine Inspector
jail anyone who hires them and take their businesses,

I personally know of businesses that refuse to allow anyone, including HR managers and in-house investigators to look closely at personnel files for fraudulent ID. By simply checking copies of drivers licenses, green cards and SS cards in employee personnel files, many will be found to be bogus. These checks can be done inexpensively and quickly. Many employers that hire these people do so knowingly. Most of these fraudulent IDs are easy to spot if you look closely and compare them with a legitimate ID.

33 posted on 05/29/2002 9:43:42 PM PDT by Joe Hadenuf
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To: hannosh4LtGovernor
I'm running for Lieutenant governor in California and I will urge putting the National Guard on the border to keep the law breakers out and put businessman in jail who knowingly hire illegals.

For once, I wish I lived in California so I could vote for you. Go get 'em!

34 posted on 05/29/2002 9:52:04 PM PDT by Allegra
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To: Marine Inspector
Why would it be any harder to build a 30' high, prefabricated, concrete wall along the borders than it is to build them along the highways? Maintenance? They'll stop a tank.

I'm not recommending that the border patrol or the military join hands and form a human chain at the top of the walls. With electronic surveillance, it's not going to take 200,000 troops to stop women pole-vaulters that are 9 months pregnant.

I'm all for fining and jailing anyone that employs illegal aliens, but how does that stop the terrorists, the Red Mafia, the Yakuza and agents of adversary foreign governments?

Mexico has the natural resources to develope it's own economy.

35 posted on 05/29/2002 9:54:34 PM PDT by 4Freedom
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To: Allegra
For once, I wish I lived in California so I could vote for you. Go get 'em!

If you were a Democrat, you could vote in California no matter where you live in the galaxy or even if you are only imaginary. You don't even have to be alive.

36 posted on 05/29/2002 9:57:56 PM PDT by Hillarys Gate Cult
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To: Hillarys Gate Cult
If you were a Democrat, you could vote in California no matter where you live in the galaxy or even if you are only imaginary. You don't even have to be alive.

  My Grand-Dad voted Republican til the day he died.

  Since then, he's voted Democrat.

Drew Garrett

37 posted on 05/29/2002 10:12:20 PM PDT by agarrett
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To: Map Kernow
Time to besiege the White House and Congress Critters to let them know we're watching every move they make! Use mailblaster.com and free2fax.com etc. and hit them once a week on this issue. It's our duty to protect our country from these imbeciles.....meaning our politicians.
38 posted on 05/29/2002 10:32:49 PM PDT by brat
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To: Marine Inspector
I agree we should slam employers of ALL illegals currently residing in the US criminally and take the welfare gravy train away from all parasites illegal and domestic. However, the US recently forgave Mexican debt to the tune of about 20 billion dollars, after sending many times more than that to rescue their corrupt, third world, drug infested economy. We also gave them NAFTA which was supposed to alleviate the mass illegal migration across our border and their own internal poverty and even helped install the current leadership (Fox) precisely to turn around this downward spiraling trend. Yet Mexico has done absolutely nothing whatsoever to stop the spread of drug cartels, massive illegal immigration, or reform one goddamned iota of their own corrupt, self-imposed, poverty stricken social situation.

Until the US gets serious and stops pissing around with stupid touchy-feely nonsense and race politics, this flood of global poor will continue until it wrecks our society and turns it into a sewer like the societies that teem into our borders. The President should order the US military to the US-Mexican border and if necessary enter Mexico itself and set up a provisional government to stop what in actuality is an invasion from an open border, not a form of immigration. As a descendant of American Indians I have NO sympathy whatsoever for "Hispanics", nor do I shed one tear for their own self-imposed failures. We've already played this stupid, endless game with blacks as "victims", we don't need to add another group to the pity parade, especially one that has their own country and wasn't forced to come here. ILLEGAL is ILLEGAL, no bullshit or excuses change that fact.

39 posted on 05/29/2002 10:43:18 PM PDT by rebelsoldier
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To: Joe Hadenuf
Very true, and that is the reason we should put these folks in jail and take their assets.
40 posted on 05/29/2002 10:44:22 PM PDT by Marine Inspector
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Comment #41 Removed by Moderator

To: 4Freedom
Why would it be any harder to build a 30' high, prefabricated, concrete wall along the borders than it is to build them along the highways? Maintenance? They'll stop a tank.

Terrain. About 50% of the California / Mexico border is almost impassable by foot. How would you get he people and equipment down in those canyons to build a wall. And believe me, they will destroy that wall if it is not guarded 24/7.

I'm not recommending that the border patrol or the military join hands and form a human chain at the top of the walls. With electronic surveillance, it's not going to take 200,000 troops to stop women pole-vaulters that are 9 months pregnant.

We have millions of sensors along the border now, but not the man power to respond to them all. Pregnant women make up a very very small majority of the illegals that cross from Mexico.

I'm all for fining and jailing anyone that employs illegal aliens, but how does that stop the terrorists, the Red Mafia, the Yakuza and agents of adversary foreign governments?

So far there is no evidence that terrorists, the Red Mafia, the Yakuza and agents of adversary foreign governments have crossed the border through Mexico. While it is possible that these folks can cross the border from Mexico, it is more likely that they will just get a real or counterfeit visa and enter the country at a port of entry.

Mexico has the natural resources to develope it's own economy.

True, but they do not know how to properly exploit them. We would be better off spending our money getting them out of the third world and into our world. Mexico accounts for over 60% of all illegal traffic across the southern border. If we get them going and they stop coming here, then we only have to deal with the remaining 40%.

42 posted on 05/29/2002 11:04:19 PM PDT by Marine Inspector
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To: Forty_two
Exactly. If we slam the employers so hard they will never hire the illegals, and then cut off the welfare, the illegals will have no reason to come.
43 posted on 05/29/2002 11:09:48 PM PDT by Marine Inspector
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To: rebelsoldier
I agree that the US must get tough with Mexico, and just throwing money at them is not the solution.

I'm not an expert in economies, but we need to unf**k that country. The US needs to go down there to Mexico City and give Fox and ultimatum. Unf**k your house or we will do it for you.

After spending 12 years in the Marine Corps infantry, I'm not ready to send troops to the border. I know what will happen and we don't need that. There are better ways to deal with the problem.

44 posted on 05/29/2002 11:18:17 PM PDT by Marine Inspector
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To: dougherty
It said the Hispanic community, legal and illegal, were overwhelmingly in favor of continued mass immigration.

No surprise here. They were basically asking Hispanics if they would like to continue seeing large numbers of Hispanics enter the U.S. each year. I wonder what their response would have been if they had been asked if they were in favor of the U.S. allowing millions of Chinese to immigrate here each year for the next 10 years or so, and at the same time have the U.S. cut way back on immigration from Mexico.

45 posted on 05/29/2002 11:32:00 PM PDT by usadave
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To: rebelsoldier
You made several good points in your post #39. Thanks for your input.
46 posted on 05/29/2002 11:41:53 PM PDT by usadave
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To: Marine Inspector
After spending 12 years in the Marine Corps infantry, I'm not ready to send troops to the border. I know what will happen and we don't need that.

I wonder if you could expand on this a bit? I have no idea what would happen, and your insights on other points cause me to want your views on this issue as well.

47 posted on 05/29/2002 11:50:35 PM PDT by neutrino
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To: neutrino
Someone is going to die needlessly.

Either one of our troops will kill an illegal looking for a job, or some drug load scumbag will off one of our troops.

Putting a bunch of young high strung Marines and Soldiers on the border is a recipe for disaster.

Combat troops should not train or practice to be police officers. They are combat troops and should train as such and practice as such.

If troops are needed to augment the Border Patrol, them take the MP's, at least they have been through a law enforcement training academy and would understand the mission.

48 posted on 05/29/2002 11:56:46 PM PDT by Marine Inspector
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To: neutrino
p.s. Thank you for the kind comments.
49 posted on 05/30/2002 12:01:05 AM PDT by Marine Inspector
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Comment #50 Removed by Moderator


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