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To: Asmodeus
But you DEMAND answers to two questions of your own. The first is as follows:

"Did Faret and Wendell report THE smoke cloud they describe in their personally prepared witness statement as moving NNW?"

The following report of these eyewitnesses includes the answer to your question in bold print.

__________________________________________________________

TWA Flight 800
"Witnessing the downing of Flight 800"
by Sven Faret & Ken Wendell

..."We approached the black-gray smoke cloud on the west side. We were at 7700 feet and were at the top edge of the cloud. The cloud center was at 7500 feet. There were 2 small bumps atop it. There was no smoke or smoke trails above it. It was still lit up a little by the sun, clear above. There was a tornado like tail leaving the bottom of it leading down to the flames.
It had a small arc in it as the winds gently moved the cloud NNW."...


OK Elmer, so you agree by your response that the answer to the first question is YES.
Faret and Wendell DID report THE smoke cloud they describe in their personally prepared witness statement as moving NNW.


The second question you DEMAND an answer to is as follows:

"Is this cloud movement reported by Faret and Wendell in a direction not consistent with the upper air wind data the NTSB published in the final report?"

Please provide us all with the "final report" reference source URL you are relying on...

Do I detect a note of sarcasm here, Fudd? Ask and ye shall receive, old thing...

http://www.ntsb.gov/Publictn/2000/AAR0003.pdf

Page 57 TABLE 3.

Now that wasn't so hard, was it, FUDD? Remaining on one subject at a time might get habit forming if you try it more often.

Your answer to the second question, now, if you're not afraid to...It has a direct relationship to how I answer your questions. And trust me, old thing, they will be answered.

62 posted on 06/08/2002 1:42:29 AM PDT by acehai
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To: acehai
http://www.ntsb.gov/Publictn/2000/AAR0003.pdf
1.7 Meteorological Information
The surface weather observation taken about 1951 at JFK on July 17, 1996, located 52 nautical miles (nm) west of the accident site, stated the following: Winds 220° at 8 knots; visibility 10 miles; clouds at 6,000 feet scattered, ceiling 7,000 feet broken, 9,000 feet broken; temperature 82° F; dew point 70° F; altimeter setting 30.07 inches of Hg [mercury]; wind shift 1906; rain began 1918 and ended 1929; precipitation 0.00 inch between 1927 and 1951.

The surface weather observation taken about 2051 at JFK stated the following: Winds 240° at 9 knots; visibility 10 miles; few clouds at 10,000 feet; temperature 80° F; dew point 69° F; altimeter setting 30.08 inches of Hg.

The surface weather observation taken about 1945 at Francis S. Gabreski Airport (FOK) Westhampton Beach, New York, located 12 nm north of the accident site (the nearest reporting station to the accident site), stated the following: Winds 240° at 4 knots; visibility 4 miles; haze; clouds at 6,000 feet scattered; temperature 73° F; dew point 66° F; altimeter setting 30.08 inches of Hg; total sky cover 3/8.

The surface weather observation taken about 2045 at FOK stated the following: Winds calm; visibility 6 miles; haze; clouds at 6,000 feet scattered; temperature 72° F; dew point 66° F; altimeter setting 30.09 inches of Hg; total sky cover 3/8. The winds aloft measured by a weather balloon launched from Upton, New York, on July 17, 1996, about 2000, are shown in table 3. (Upton is located about 15 nm from the accident site.)

Table 3. Winds aloft measured by a weather balloon launched from Upton, New York.
Altitude (feet msl)
Wind Direction (degrees) Wind Speed (knots)
1,000 270 12
2,000 280 14
3,000 285 17
4,000 290 17
5,000 303 19
6,000 310 19
7,000 315 17
8,000 320 16
9,000 330 12
10,000 335 12
11,000 320 12
12,000 295 16
13,000 290 16
14,000 300 17
15,000 303 19
16,000 305 21
17,000 315 29
18,000 315 33

These numbers were used during the Safety Board™s trajectory study. 105 Review of the meteorological data revealed no record of significant meteorological conditions in the area or at the time of the accident.

____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________
I'm unqualified by training and experience to provide the readers with an expert opinion on that subject, much less about the winds aloft between 8500 feet and the surface from appropximately 8:31:47 when Faret & Wendell saw the Massive Fireball Fireball explosion and started flying straight to it until they arrived at the smoke cloud and trail it left, so please provide us all with an expert opinion explaining specifically how the above readings taken by a weather balloon at an unspecifified time between 8500 feet and the surface supposedly is irrefutable evidence supporting the allegations of some of the "shootdown" tinfoil hats including you that the MF smoke cloud and trail to the surface Faret & Wendell were flying straight to blew away and were replaced by a second smoke cloud and trail rising from the surface fires while they were doing so.

Expert - "A person with a high degree of skill in or knowledge of a certain subject".

In the interim, the readers may also find the following additional information about the weather balloons interesting.

http://www.erh.noaa.gov/er/okx/upperair.htm

To the NOAA homepage National Weather Service - Upton, NY To the NWS homepage
WFO OKX is located on the campus of the Brookhaven National Laboratory

Upper-air Observations Program


Weather Forecast Office, Upton, NY (WFO OKX) is one of the select weather stations in the US that is part of the National Weather Service Upper-air Observations Program. There are only 92 Radiosonde stations in North America and the Pacific islands. Radiosondes provide upper-air data that are essential for weather forecasts and research. A new radiosonde ground system will replace the old system currently in use by September, 2005.


Weather Balloons

Photo of Launch Area Photo of Weather Balloon Inflation Photo of Weather Balloon Just about Inflated
Photo of Weather Balloon Ready to Go Photo of Launch! Photo of Receiver


Weather balloons are launched from the upper air building which is located in a valley adjacent to the forecast office (pictured, top row left). They are filled with helium inside of the small building (pictured, top row center and right), then taken outside to launch (pictured, bottom row center). The helium, which is a very light gas, allows the balloon to reach heights of 60,000 feet above the earth's surface in about an hour. As the balloon rises, the atmosphere thins and the pressure outside the balloon decreases allowing the balloon to expand and eventually break. This usually happens within two hours of the launch at elevations of 80,000 to 120,000 feet.

An instrument, called a radiosonde, is tethered to the balloon (pictured, bottom row center). As the balloon rises through the air, the radiosonde measures temperature, relative humidity, and pressure. A transmitter within the radiosonde transmits this data back to a receiver located in the shelter (pictured, bottom row right). The receiver tracks the azimuth and range of the balloon as it ascends. From this information, the wind speed at various levels in the atmosphere can be calculated.

After the balloon flight is complete, a technician ensures the data is accurate before it is disseminated. Additional quality control checks are done at one of our national centers before the data is incorporated into computer models which meteorologists use to make their forecasts.

The balloons are launched from hundreds of locations around the world twice a day every day of the year. The launches occur simultaneously worldwide! This gives meteorologists a snapshot of the earth's three-dimensional atmospheric conditions.



Check out our most recent Upper Air Sounding Plot
from the 0000Z or 1200Z (8:00 p.m. or 8:00 a.m. EDT) Weather Balloon launch.


But what happens to the radiosonde when the balloon breaks? The radiosonde is protected by a styrofoam container, which cushions the radiosonde upon impact with the ground. However, a small parachute will also pop out as the radiosonde falls, slowing its descent.

Are the radiosondes returned? Frequently, the radiosondes are discovered in a pasture, grove of trees, creek, peoples' backyards and other locations. A self-addressed postage-paid envelope, which is in a compartment of the radiosonde container, can be used to return the radiosonde to a reconditioning center for repair, and eventual reuse. Most of the radiosondes launched from this office follow the prevailing wind and wind up dropping into the North Atlantic Ocean, never to be recovered.

63 posted on 06/08/2002 11:16:42 AM PDT by Asmodeus
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To: acehai
You have repeatedly been asked the following questions and have assured the readers you will respond to them promptly but we're all still waiting.

Can you explain how witness Fred Meyer could have seen a "shootdown" of Flight 800 at 13,800 feet at 8:31:12 only 3-4 seconds before he saw the Massive Fireball explode at 5500-7500 feet at about 8:31:47 which he says he and his crewmates agreed at the time took approximately 10 seconds to fall to the surface?

If he's so unflappable and knows what he saw, how do you explain his following statement while being interviewed by an NTSB Witness Group?

"I saw a streak of light in the sky. I have no idea what it was. And my reaction when I saw it was, what the hell is that?"

64 posted on 06/09/2002 8:15:11 AM PDT by Asmodeus
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