Posted on 06/09/2002 9:45:00 AM PDT by mel
This is a short report on Dr. Abkik's talk this morning.I wanted to try to relay it as close to his words as I could. Before 1917, this land was part of the Ottoman Empire. Some prominent Jews went to British and offered financial support in exchange for for help in establishing a homeland in Palestine. This was the birth of the Zionist movement. Zionist refers to political ideology and not religious. There are many Zionists who are atheists. Ben Guron never set foot in a synagogue.
The Balfour agreement was signed but there was an interesting sentence that said this movement should not infringe on rights of Palestines. The agreement started a large immigration of Jews into the country. There were a lot of clashes between Jews, Britians and Arabs. In 1948, a building was exploded that killed 60 Britians resulting in the British leaving the area. Russia started a movement to give Jews statehood and U.S. joined in support for an Israeli homestate. However, FDR and the King of Saudi Arabia had a signed agreement from FDR that U.S. would not help Israel gain statehood.
Many elements fuel the conflict 1) Settlements. Since 1967 there was been increased Jewish settlements into West Bank. 2)Lack of defninite boundaries and 3) Palestinians living under difficult situations. For example, a Palestinian living in the settlements can't drill for water, but the Jew down the street can have a swimming pool. Also, to visit relatives it often takes 10-12 hours because of check points.
Dr. Abkik supports GW Bush as long as he continues to suppport the formation of a palestinian state and that the Israelis should dismantle settlements.
When asked about Clinton's statement that Arafat declined the Camp David peace agreement which would give Palestinians a majority of what they wanted, Dr. Abkik responded that this was a lie, Clinton had to say that because Hiliary was running for Senator in a state with a large Jewish population.
The refugee camps have continued to exist because the people there were under the belief that they would go home. He asked how would you feel if you lived in Nashville and someone told you you had to live in Memphis? These people don't want to leave, they want to return to the land of their forefathers. One person felt that the Arabs were refusing to assimilate the Palestinians into their states because it is a tool to keep the fires of the conflict burning. Dr. Abkik said they don't want to leave and they will never give up. Another person asked a question which delighted Dr. Abkik. the question was why don't the Palestinians just become Israeli citizens. Dr. Abkik thought that was great except the Israeli constitution states that you have to be a Jew to be a full citizen.
Dr. Abkik does not like Arafat but since he is the only one that can sign the checks, he remains in power. He thinks that Sharon wants Arafat to stay in power. Most of the Palestinians are not fond of Arafat. They have many top notch people who could easily take his place. One man talked about Dr. Bernard Lewis's theory that this is not simply a battle between Arabs and Israel, but the West. It seemed to catch Dr. Abkik off guard and to some degree he agreed with that thought. Again, he was questioned about the lack of the Arab countries to assimilate these people into their lands, since they were so smart and intelligent, it seems that other Arab lands would be glad to take them.
DrMike
I was reacting co a couple of things this guy said.
Hmmmmmm......
FMCDH
And the Ottoman Empire fought with the Kaiser against the Allies. Remember Gallipoli? The Turks gambled and lost. The Jews were rewarded because of their general support for the Allied cause and for Chaim Weizmann's work for the British in developing a process that would produce acetone and butanol by fermenting starches. The chemicals, especially acetone, were indispensable to the war effort.
By the way, I was responding to Dr. Abkik's talk, not to your much-appreciated summary!
... However, FDR and the King of Saudi Arabia had a signed agreement from FDR that U.S. would not help Israel gain statehood ...And we didn't help them. We didn't lift a finger. When they declared themselves a state, we recognized them, but we never helped them gain statehood.
Well, what about Christians........Did you know that at the time of the Balfour agreement that about 25% of the people of the area known as the Palestinians were Christian? My wife's father and his family were amoung that number. Bethlehem was 90% Christian. So you and those like you in their zeal to give God unneeded help with prophecy have been destroying your own Christian breathern. All these fundamentalists here in America are doing is letting themselves be useful idiots to the Zionists in their quest to take over not just the Middle East, but the entire world. And btw, I doubt Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson being in the ruling coalition are in the plans. They did buy Brother Jerry a lear jet, which I'm sure he enjoys very much being he is so shallow minded and materialistic.
But, what do you think of his remarks about Clinton lies about Camp David, we all know Clinton lies what I don't think he lied about Camp David just because of Hilary.I agree with you. Clinton pressured Barak until he offered all of the West Bank and half of Jerusalem to the Palestinians. Arafat then added an additional demand, the so-called "right of full return," a condition the Israelis cannot accept as it would result in the end of the Jewish state--this, effectively, killed the deal.
Hey, Clinton doesn't even need a reason to lie -- it just comes naturally to him!
Your attempts at diversion are truely laughable. The crux of the issue is that many people were thrown off land that they owned without compensation to make way for people who had not lived there for about 1900 years. I believe in the sanctity of private property; how about you?? BTW, I have no use for Saddam or Idi, or any of the others that you mentioned, but they weren't the issue I was addressing. I think you know that though.
It is rare to find a thread about Israel which does not have some variation of your remark. They all are so similiar. What is the deal? No one here ever makes that claim yet some pretend it is said and mock it. Why?
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