Southern Pastor Works to Deliver His Flock From Credit-Card Debt

The Wall Street Journal ^ | Wednesday, June 12, 2002 | ELLEN GRAHAM

[billbears]

LOL. What are you trying to say? No, really great post and great idea. At first read, I admit I was a bit skeptical thinking it was a fleecing of the congregation. I've seen that so much and know a few folks that are involved in churches like that. But this guy is doing exactly what the Bible preaches. You can't serve the world and God at the same time. I'm trying to get myself out of debt and am almost there. Will be a wonderful day when it occurs.

[VOA]

Sounds like Alan Bond (the guy who used to appear on Wall Street Week with Louis Rukyser)
could use a bit of this help...
He just got convicted on 6 felonies yesterday and goes to trial for more financial
hanky-panky in November.
Hard to believe a Dartmouth College and Harvard Business School grad could fall so far.
He's even "indigent" and represented by a public defender.
(Story seen on Monday in LA Times)

[Norwell]

Sounds like a Baptist with a heavy mixture of Calvinism: good combination for financial success. The next step is to get his flock to rid themselves of television, thier democrat political registration and to start making weekly visits to thier library.

[Sloth]

I would think that the discipline required to get out of debt would go a long way toward teaching people to STAY out of debt.... Sounds like they are setting up a mentality that if people spend unwisely, someone else will bail them out.

You have a point. On the other hand, these are the kind of people who are voluntarily enslaved to paying a ridiculous 20% or 24% interest that makes it awfully difficult to make headway; perhaps low-interest or interest-free loans would be a better approach.

BTW, I called up and tried to cancel one of my cards recently... they dropped my rate from ~17% to ~6% to keep me. :)

[john in missouri]

I would think there is a rule, or at least a functional dynamic, that they don't strike with lightning in the same place twice.

And I'll tell you what. As someone who is, unfortunately, currently a slave to credit card debt (for the first time in my life at age 40), if someone were to wave a magic wand to get us out of this hell-hole, I would do my best to move heaven and earth never to get into this situation again.

If you've never been there yet, even if you've paid off your credit card balances every month (as we did for years and years), let me give you this piece of free advice -- if you have any credit cards, cut them up NOW.

[Skooz]

Sounds to me like good intentions run awry.

Sounds to me like Christian charity in action. Sometimes when someone falls into a pit (or even jumps in) they cannot get out of it without a helping hand. Christians helping one another in this way is biblical and commendable.

I am glad God doesn't share your mentality that we should all get what we deserve. He offers grace and forgiveness, and that is what these precious Christians are doing for one another.

Sometimes people need a little help. It is not irresponsible to give it to them.

I am glad that when I dug my hole of drug addiction and alcoholism that God offered forgiveness and restoration rather than your "you made your bed, now sleep in it" attitude.

[twigs]

I HAVE been there and was there for a long time, and not out of negligence, either. I have known too many people who depend on the kindness of others to do for them what they need to be doing for themselves. I am truly sorry that you are in the morass now. I know what it is like SO well. It IS hard to get out and I wish for you the very best in doing so!!!

[twigs]

He offers grace and forgiveness, and that is what these precious Christians are doing for one another.

I have been a Christian my whole life and depend on Him utterly. I have made a lot of mistakes in my life and have depended on others to help me. As well, I have given money whenever I could to help others. I have also opened my home to folks recovering from alcohol dependencies. However, I also believe that God teaches that there are consequences for our actions. I know that I have lived mine. Forgiveness, which I need and claim on a daily basis, does not mean that I will not experience the consequences of my actions. It means that I will live with God forever!

[mhking]

Black conservative ping

If you want on (or off) of my black conservative ping list, please let me know via FREEPmail. (And no, you don't have to be black to be on the list!)

[mafree]

Thanks for the ping.

On the whole, this sounds like a good thing as long as they can stay out of debt.

[TomServo]

Being a slave to credit card dept is awful. I wish it upon no one.

Was there myself for a loooooooong time. Now I'm debt free. Totally. No Credit, no car payment, and my favorite. No mortgage. I've often considered a job flipping burgers. :-)

[Skooz]

I agree with every word of that post.

God Bless.

[Gumlegs]

Verrrrrry interesting.

[Drawsing]

As Christians there are many fine lines we walk. Justice and mercy, judgment and tolerance, gentleness and righteous anger...just read the life of Jesus and you see all of these things played out.

There is a time for letting people reap the consequences of their actions and there is a time for this kind of jubilee. Sounds like this congregation is doing it right.

[zeaal]

Interesting idea. Thanks for posting.

[Poohbah]

I would think that the discipline required to get out of debt would go a long way toward teaching people to STAY out of debt.

The couple in this article paid 3/4ths of their debt on their own. That's a lot of discipline there.

And the message of the church is simple and fully in consonance with the teachings of Christ: you've been given a gift. The best gratitude is to give that gift to someone else.

The community is pooling its resources as they see fit; they're helping one another.

And, finally, I offer one final defense: it seems to be working...

[twigs]

You put it quite well. And I agree that there are times in which I would help someone with credit card debt. It would depend on the person (or family) and the circumstances. However, I do not believe that just paying off everyone's credit card debts as a policy without looking at each particular set of circumstances and putting in a plan of action that would continue to call the recipients to accountability, at least for a while, is necessarily a good thing. It could be a plan of enablement without truly helping the people at financial risk.

[twigs]

The couple in this article paid 3/4ths of their debt on their own. That's a lot of discipline there.

You are right. I did not see that when I read the article the first time. It may not have sounded like it, but I really do believe in God's people working collectively to help one another. I have just known some people, my best friend for example, who did give other believers money like this just to see it wasted. It depends on how it's done, who it's given to and the plan of accountability put into place.

[Mugwumps]

Thanks for the post and the ping. Fascinating. The fact that tithing is up and people are learning to live debt-free has to be a good thing. More power to this congregation. May this idea spread!

[swheats]

The Lord works in mysterious ways.