Living in Exile -- Federal prisons are filling up with people whose only crime is gun possession

Denver Westword ^ | Mar 21, 2002 | David Holthouse

[gcruse]

-- Federal prisons are filling up with people whose only crime is
gun possession

The problem is, the prisons are already
full of people whose only crime is the
cultivation, distribution, or use of
proscribed vegatation.  As soon as
we realize that gun grabbers and
drug warriors are equally destructive
of freedom, the better off we will be.
 

[sleavelessinseattle]

Get some rest...come back loaded for bear...don't just spew...I'll still be here.

[secretagent]

I wonder if anyone has studied whether we'd have even lower crime rates if we repealed all the laws against ex-felons owning firearms. It disarms the most law abiding ex-felons, increasing the risk to them and their families, neighbors, and co-workers.

No stories here of ex-felons as unarmed victims - those remain untold, I guess.

[wardaddy]

I neither "spewed nor ranted". "Rant" was your word. I simply think folks who've done their time and their obligatory parole or probation and satisfied all those requirements should have their gun rights restored. A number of states feel the same as I do. The Feds as well as a larger number of states do not. Before Janet Reno, a Federal ex-felon could apply for limited gun rights restoration from the Marshall's service. Now one must go to a Fed judge and Ashcroft is challenging that practice in the DC courts as we speak.

I simply do not agree with you. I also worry about the infringments, the overlapping jurisdcitions and the draconian sentencing guidleines.

I would guess that probably 5% of American Males are already disenfranchised from gun rights if one takes into account all of these laws and infractions. Over 1% of America has done time. The vast majority is for non violent crimes. If you juxtapose that 1% and the other convictions requiring no time including some misdemeanors that preclude gun rights with the adult male population then I would think the surmisal that 1 in 20 American adult males have no gun rights Federally (sans Black Powder Firearms) and are at risk for these draconian in my view sentences should they be found to even be in "constructive" possession of a firearm.

Regards

[sleavelessinseattle]

Yeah, You fall in nearly the same category as me...I don't like the system and there are individual cases particularly the old A Squared gun and bullet company case where Federales TOTALLY went beyond the pale of any legal process. I kind of have faith in John Ashcroft supporting the 2nd Amendment or I wouldn't be so relaxed these days...the RKBA is why I'm a FReeper...Shot all my life...feared the law because they could take my right to a firearm away...

I'd like little old ladies and children to be able to go anywhere in Seattle without fear because they were in the greatest country that has ever existed and all good men and women carried concealed without fear of unjust prosecution after a shooting...Instead, I carry concealed...watch for trouble and pray that I get a good defense lawyer and an ethical judge if I ever have to use lethal force on a criminal...I resent that I have had to prepare myself to be Bleeding before I will shoot back to try and avoid being charged with anything, but I hate courtrooms and figure I can take a knife stab or one bullet before I open fire and turn off the attacker like a switch(I hope)...absurdity is the word, here.

Somebody fix the legal system PUHLEASE!!!

[helper]

I think the origional idea behind Exile in Richmond was good and worked. As I understand it was to get the drug dealers off the streets, and to send them to a distant prison so they would not be able to run their empire through "family visits". It seems that when the druggies were arrested on drug charges alone, they requested a O.J. jury and were out in no time. In VA Exile guaranteed 5 years even if they got O.J'ed on the drug charge.

I notice many of the people sited where drug related convictions. What's the difference between a user and dealer, they both perpetuate the drug problem?

[William Tell]

From the article: "When he was eighteen, Thompson was convicted of first-degree felony assault for firing a gun during a carjacking and served two years in state prison. On April 20, 1999 -- the same day as the Columbine shootings and one day before Strickland took office -- Thompson was pulled over for running a stop sign, and a .22-caliber pistol was found in his car. "

I think I see the problem: " ...firing a gun during a carjacking and served two years..."

If we stop treating people who threaten to kill others in order to take their property as if they were double-parking, we wouldn't have the crime problem that we do. Nothing will solve the problem of associating firearms-ownership with crime as long as such people are more likely to be found on the street than in prison.

If this jerk had been in prison where he belonged for his initial outrageous crime, anti-gunners would have a much harder time passing laws which result in prison for a woman posing nude with guns.

Despite the injustices outlined in the article, the greater injustice is to infringe my right to keep and bear arms. These sad tales will eventually help to identify the problem, but only if the laws are enforced. Selective enforcement just grants power to the government which it shouldn't have.

[sleavelessinseattle]

I neither "spewed nor ranted". "Rant" was your word. I simply think folks who've done their time and their obligatory parole or probation and satisfied all those requirements should have their gun rights restored.

Okay, So I can shoot someone-do my 10 years, fill out a form and use a high powered deer rifle and blow their wife away from 400 yards? If a violent criminal is walking the street with a grudge I want him unarmed ALL the time...no knives...no guns no bow and arrows...(This isn't precisely spew, BUT you don't know criminals) Lets move on shall we?

A number of states feel the same as I do. The Feds as well as a larger number of states do not. Before Janet Reno, a Federal ex-felon could apply for limited gun rights restoration from the Marshall's service. Now one must go to a Fed judge and Ashcroft is challenging that practice in the DC courts as we speak.

Thanks for the info...an appeals process should be in place...I told you I was operating off the cuff...this is just chaff. Individual extenuating circumstances were covered in my above post. They need to be considered!

I simply do not agree with you.

I gathered that...you just have a naive take on people who have been incarcerated...even someone who is inside unjustly can come out violent and dangerous just from the socialization process.

I also worry about the infringments, the overlapping jurisdcitions and the draconian sentencing guidleines.

more chaff.

I would guess that probably 5% of American Males are already disenfranchised from gun rights if one takes into account all of these laws and infractions. Over 1% of America has done time. The vast majority is for non violent crimes. If you juxtapose that 1% and the other convictions requiring no time including some misdemeanors that preclude gun rights with the adult male population then I would think the surmisal that 1 in 20 American adult males have no gun rights Federally (sans Black Powder Firearms) and are at risk for these draconian in my view sentences should they be found to even be in "constructive" possession of a firearm.

All I got out of that was liberal "I feel your pain..." vibe...The fact of the matter is, I DO feel sorry for anyone who isn't allowed to go to the range and blast away with a high capacity mag equipped ruger 10/22...Our government has real problems Wardaddy...But being too hard on VIOLENT Criminals IS NOT ONE OF THEM...(having said that...the takings for minor drug offenses are beyond the pale...) Regards

[alaskanfan]

"The message of this initiative is simple," Strickland declared the day he announced Exile. "If you violate federal gun laws, you will go to federal prison. The goal of this program is to change the culture of gun violence in America."

Under the Clintoon/Gore administration this could have included you.

It's funny how perceptions change in two years.

[wardaddy]

You're killing me....ROTFLMAO....I know you tried hard to be as "nice" as you can which is difficult. I gotta ping some folks to see me being called liberal and naive in the same reply. Maybe I should just do a thread on this alone.

Oh yeah buddy....you got a real naive liberal here....

thanks.. you're gonna send me on my 34 mile drive home with a grin on my face. Lightning struck twice today. I had a renter in my office tell me I reminded her of some movie star. Let me tell you....I never ever get that. Check out my homepage. I'm middle aged grey and uglee!

Me naive and liberal....son I have to work extra hard not to be accused of all kinds of evil right wing extremist stuff on this forum...real hard. Like some other Freeper said.."Attila the Hun is a three day ride off my left flank"

Thanks....seriously.

[wardaddy]

Bang from a "naive liberal" who believes in the 2nd amendment.

[Centurion2000]

Cason Garcia has an IQ of 61, which places him in the bottom 1 percent of the population in terms of intellectual functioning.

And a proud member of the Democratic party.

[Maelstrom]

bump

[Sandy]

Our government has real problems Wardaddy...But being too hard on VIOLENT Criminals IS NOT ONE OF THEM

Oh brother. No wonder you're not making sense; you missed the gist of the article.

The majority of the defendants -- 154 out of 191 -- have no violent felonies on their records

We're not tough on violent criminals. That's why an armed carjacker can be out walking the streets after doing only 2 years time. Too much of our prison space is reserved for drug offenders doing mandatory minimums. There's not enough room for the people who commit crimes against actual victims, so we have to let them out.

[sleavelessinseattle]

Hey, an Armed society is a polite society:-D...I just wish you had more to say...So far I'm not impressed...I didn't call you a liberal...Read carefully answer intelligently...

But you spewed again...I don't care what your friends think of you. or frankly what you think of yourself...

I'm trying to figure out how to take my government back from the Liberal Fascist Mothertruckers who had it in a tail spin for the past 8 years and still are running around like they are in power in the Senate because they know the media will back their powerplays...

Gun control in the Legislature is practically dead at the moment...As Crime rates fall in states that pass CCW legislation...more momentum will be gained and I hope we can all get together and Perforate a copy of the Brady bill on a treetrunk with legally imported semi auto Galils!!! with Bayonets attached!!!(can you believe Feinstein is still in?)

Oh, and on the NAIVE thing...How many OG gang members have you spent social time talking about steet life with? I HAVE DONE THAT TIME...THEY ARE PURE EVIL...They cannot be reliably rehabilitated...Their gang mentality is every bit as Death Cult oriented as the Islamists...The Dirty Bomber was Recruited in JAIL...Is he one of the 5% you want to REARM???

Reply with more personal anecdotes by all means as long as it involves felons being rehabilitated...but I got all the gun buddies I need...and nobody shoots with my guns unless they're an NRA member. Figure you count on that one, Bro., regardless... Best Regards, Peace.

[El Gato]

The Law is the LAW...EXILE WORKS!

How many real crimes has it prevented. How many "unqualified" persons, who wanted or intended to commit a crime using a gun were prevented from doing so? Balence that against how many "Emersons" are in prison because their ex ratted them out to the BATF or local police, when they had committed no crime at all, but merely had a routine protection order filed against them in a divorce case. Also add the people, mostly women, killed or maimed because they didn't have a gun, to avoid breaking this law due to having a "domestic violence" restraining order against them. Often the lawyers play dueling restraining orders).

Even in the case of convicted felons who have done their time/paid their debt, how many have been denied a gun when they really needed it to defend themselves? Even convicted felons are subject to the "normal" home invasions and carjackings you know.

Secondly, what part of this whole business comes under the Constitutional pervue of the federal government in the first place. When I first moved to Texas, even convicted felons could have guns in their home and that didn't seem to be a big problem.

[Maelstrom]

Told you so...and the day is coming when getting pulled over for speeding will justify this same sort of treatment with respect to gun possession after the fact.

[Sandy]

I think I see the problem: " ...firing a gun during a carjacking and served two years..." If we stop treating people who threaten to kill others in order to take their property as if they were double-parking, we wouldn't have the crime problem that we do. Nothing will solve the problem of associating firearms-ownership with crime as long as such people are more likely to be found on the street than in prison.

Oh I agree completely. Giving light sentences to violent criminals and then restricting their gun rights is as stupid as giving light sentences to sex offenders and then listing them in a sex-offender registry. They should be locked up and kept there.

[Mo1]

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[Shooter 2.5]

It shouldn't be that difficult to understand. If you're out of prison or the mental hospital, that should mean that you're either rehabilitated or cured. But the government didn't want to spend the money so they let the bad and crazy people out before their time was up. Now we have to contend with killers and psychos that shouldn't be on the streets. Unless that's changed, no one is willing to give rights back to released prisoners the way it should be.