Living in Exile -- Federal prisons are filling up with people whose only crime is gun possession

Denver Westword ^ | Mar 21, 2002 | David Holthouse

[sleavelessinseattle]

How many real crimes has it prevented. How many "unqualified" persons, who wanted or intended to commit a crime using a gun were prevented from doing so?

You're talking about the BRADY bill which is a leftist assault on the Constitution...Get back on topic or get lost

Regarding Exile's effect on violent crime...Its a FACT!!! As news of an upcoming CCW shall issue, Three Strikes you're out and Exile legislation sweeps through a state's criminal population a rhyme starts echoing in the cells. You rob a man's house you gonna get Caught or you gonna get SHOT...You don't sound like an NRA member, acting like there aren't tons of statistics about violent crime plunging everywhere more people can carry legally and criminals are punished vigourously...as a matter of fact...I'm done responding to you...Read Lotts Guns and Crime...Jail time WORKS.

Is the justice system inherently flawed and does it treat people unfairly...yes on both counts...but it can be fixed...in the meantime, it would be nice if the streets were not running with blood and no new reactionary gun control legislation gets passed as a result...

Tough prison time and armed citizens is why crime is down at least 7% nation wide(memory from last year)...probably more so since 9/11 -its at a 20 or 30 year low DESPITE the Clintoons not because of anything to do with Brady...it was due to STATES recognizing Concealed Carry and punishing Felons...NEXT.

[Cacique]

, let's start with people who've been proven beyond a reasonable doubt to have exercised very poor judgment.

I can see it now. People who are registered republicans as a sign of excercising bad judgement. How about people who belong to a gun rights group?

The Soviets used a similar argument to lock opponents in mental institutions. The argument was that you had to be insane to oppose the state, therefore opposition to the state was proof of insanity and you were subject to long term corrective institutionalisation in a state psychiatric institution.

We are living in interesting times to say the least.

[donozark]

Interesting article. I would encourage ALL to read the "Down and Out" sidebar off the link Denver Westword that Sandy provided above.

I still see no evidence that anyone not ALREADY a convicted felon has suffered as a result of EXILE. So what we are talking here is strictly ex-felons. Granted, some violent, some non-violent. Most of the examples given in sidebar represent violent/threatening behavior.

I would also add, roughly 66% of police officers KIA are shot by those who legally, cannot possess weapons under current laws.

Like all gov. programs, EXILE is (has been) getting out of control.

For any combat vets reading, as I have advised on a couple gun boards, if you are considering jumping on board the PTSD "gravy train" (as some call it), think twice! You may be inadvertantly surrendering your RKBA. Think me foolish? Read the Dept. of Veterans Affairs web page re:PTSD. Depending on your degree of disability, as measured by percent of disability, the symptoms a patient presents with may be grounds for an incompetency ruling. i.e. Mental defective-ineligible to possess firearms.

[Joe Brower]

sleaveless,

Trust me when I say that wardaddy is as far from the naive liberal you insinutate him to be. If you have read his myriad posts elsewhere on this forum, you would know this to be true. There is an irony here in that your overall viewpoints are much more like his than unlike, at least, that's what I gather from reading your opinions on this thread. You do display more of a penchant for being insulting, which he does not, which is also exhibited here on this thread. From your description of your "interaction" with the home-boys you mention above, you are obviously one who can check your ego when the situation demands, an honorable trait and a difficult thing to master.

You both have valid points. You seem to be more trusting of the lawmakers and their enforcers than he. Given the many sad examples of how our "leaders" tend to expand every legal device at their command to further and further strip us of our liberties at every opportunity, it is difficult to blame wardaddy for his opinions. I myself have witnessed abuses to laws which are good in theory, statist in practice. You mileage may vary.

From one CCW holder to another, stay safe.

[wardaddy]

All I got out of that was liberal "I feel your pain..." vibe

Sorry you did not say I was a liberal. You said I sounded like one. Nice wiggle.

I would wager my life that I am infinitely more familiar with the "tough guys" than you are. What are you...some kind of counselor or cop or prison hack? Whatever....it doesn't make you an authority.

If folks aren't capable of enjoying all their rights after time and paper served then we should rethink sentencing policy.

Now for all you law and order gung ho types out there who think prisoners don't get time enough then you haven't a clue about Fed time.

I share some commonality with you SLS but I fear the gun laws more than I fear the guns or the criminals. I know my way around guns and well....criminals...I know my way around them as well.

Regards.

[wardaddy]

Outside of the Fedderal system, the main reason a number of state charge offenders get off light for predatory crimes is because many local state attorneys are either lazy or time limited or low on money. They cut deals for folks to plea and save them the effort unless it's a high profile case.

Any federal prisoner sentenced for a crime committed after late 1987 when the Guidelines took effect has been hammered under the new laws. If he or she has satisfied that then they should damn well get their gun rights back. IMHO...as well as all their other rights.

What is this view that folks should be punished forever some folks hold? There is a lot of hype surrounding this issue. I can't speak for state criminals...I am not authority on that...not much anyhow. BUT....one of my closest pals did big time ...11 years in the Feds for large scale weed smuggling. They are about to violate him for 27 months because he won't work like they want him to while on paper. This guy has inherited a crapload of cash from his grandpa while he was "away" and now he's out and they are gonna spend our tax dollars to send an indepently wealthy ex-con (completely non violent) back to the joint because he won't go flip burgers for them after 11 calenders?

The Feds ain't soft on sh!te ...trust me and it's the same arsewipes that will come for our guns one day given their marching orders.(with a few noble exceptions hopefully)

Yep....I prefer criminals who've done their time to have guns....it's just another back door to get to everybody's guns.

regards

[okie01]

"The same author who would complain that some 60 IQ guy who had homemade brass knuckles now can't own a gun would probably have no problem if every middle class suburbanite lost his or her right to own a firearm."

My impression, exactly.

Holthouse wrings his hands over gun-toting felons being deprived of their liberty. But he would cheer any and all attempts to disarm you.

[sleavelessinseattle]

Sorry you did not say I was a liberal. You said I sounded like one. Nice wiggle.

I'd take credit if it had been meant as a wiggle...I'm sorry if you took it that I would accuse you of BEING liberal...I Don't now, nor did I EVER think that of you(And even if I suspected, I wouldn't accuse you of it face to face...its the lowest form of humanity in my book!!!

I would wager my life that I am infinitely more familiar with the "tough guys" than you are. What are you...some kind of counselor or cop or prison hack?

Two major metropolitan police Swat Teams train at my Silat kick boxing dojo...10 years back I used to work with dope dealers and alcoholics for two years struggling to make an honest(I paid taxes on the income but don't buy circus tickets to support PBA's-RIPOFF!-...little tip out of respect for you;) living in a boiler room phone fundraising gig.

Whatever....it doesn't make you an authority

Also routinely hired ex felons on their first 6 months work release program mentoring their release from supervised housing...Howse that Crow tasting WD.?

If folks aren't capable of enjoying all their rights after time and paper served then we should rethink sentencing policy.

Sure!!! I'm all for letting the small time marijuana growers and dealers out and nailing them for tax evasion...The bad guys can be kept locked up in their place, longer...We're in agreement here...

Now for all you law and order gung ho types out there who think prisoners don't get time enough then you haven't a clue about Fed time.

Listened to it described in agonizing detail from a guy I believe was railroaded by the government...

He started drinking the night he got out of UA testing...Slipped off to another state...never to be heard from again...Had a familys' loving support, too...

I share some commonality with you SLS but I fear the gun laws more than I fear the guns or the criminals. I know my way around guns and well....criminals...I know my way around them as well.

I agree about the Brady Bill and harassment of legit gun dealers in SPADES!!! WD...But somewhere someone HAS to stand up and say, "HEY convicted violent offender!...You committed a Felony"..."You gambled your right to vote and the right to own a firearm for money and a moment of power over a fellow American, and YOU LOST" for the good of the rest of the people who aren't prepared to defend themselves...If you want to see me get bristly start advocating laws that don't protect the stupid liberal's and the weak's physical safety... Really, Best Regards. So how is it you know so much about ex cons? I was totally ripped off by an ex cop who did time that he said he was framed for...Absolute crack addicted psycho that I lost $4000 to in an attempt to rehabilitate him...What do you know that I don't? No satire at all...just willing to listen to your experience...

[sleavelessinseattle]

JB...A note of Humble Thank YOU...I respect War Daddy and await his response to my most recent post with interest...I'm a newbie and appreciate ALL offers of advice on behavior on FR...Just wanted you to know I appreciate your input! Its good to know a FReeper will step up and help another if he appears to be about to shoot himself in the foot!!!LOL...Its a wonder I have any waterproof boots LEFT!!!!

Best Regards,SS

[stainlessbanner]

Hah! I thought your bump said "native liberal" - I didn't know you were a native < wink > < wink >....

Ol sleaveless ought to ease up a little - I believe you both are on the same side, 'course I'll share my arms with non NRA members.

[sleavelessinseattle]

I didn't think I was being rude to WD...Just wanted an even factual playing field and he was throwing all these questions about who am I...Well now you see? My philosophy is any knee jerk liberal can jump out of a plane with a parachute...I took a business into and out of a Chapter 11 bankruptcy in two years(and took about two years off the end of my life doing it...I got IRS stories, too)...

People telling me what I know are going to get a resume...not being rude...will I ever shut up? well, eventually okay...yes....Buenos Noches!

[Travis McGee]

IMHO a federal prosecuter who puts a non-violent long time in the past felon in prison for years for having a bullet in the trunk of his car is an enemy of constitution and should be dealt with as a traitor.

[wardaddy]

I'm sorry I can't be more forthcoming. I am a member of the NRA as well. I just re-upped for 5 years. I of course also am GOA...which no doubt is more in tune with my thinking. I look at the NRA like the Republican Party....I support them by default if you know what i mean. I obviously am not in favor of Project Exile. I am in favor of the ex-cop carry law ...218??? and think every state should be "shall issue" and Brady should be abolished and the Assault Weapons Ban allowed to sunset.

My feelings on violent criminals are that they will get guns regardless of laws or consequences and I'm all for enhancement for repeat offenders with guns commttting another crime. I simply prefer to enfranchise the mostly non-violent felons we're releasing daily when their paper is over if they have done their bit. I'm not sure how to disenfranchise some and enfranchise others....it's complicated which is why our pols simply take the easy route and disenfranchise every ex-felon.....which by the way is a relatively new idea in most areas....within the past 50 years or so. They really jacked it up in the 90s Federally. Now folks can be revoked for restraining orders, assault charges, even the TX case where the guy was arrested for bullets in Mexico.....I think in Maryland they are now even trying to declare one's gun rights void if one has too many misdemeanor traffic violations. All of this bothers me greatly. As I said..it is no slap on the wrist for infractions even if they appear benign to you and I.

I am willing to offer that we have more in common than not but that the points on which we disagree are contentious. That's ok...that's just part of being here.

I was amused earlier at the mention of liberal and naive. I'm usually accused of being a racist on Southern or race threads. A gun freak ....militia nut on RKBA stuff...you know the drill....folks like me are considered the real problem in this country by the media.....angry white boys with guns. We're the conventional bad guys. You are the first to accuse me of being (sort of I know)liberal or naive. I did not think you were stupid but it just shocked me. Need i say I'm pro-death penalty as well.

I have a gnawing fear that firearms are all that will protect us from our enemies whether homegrown or foreign (and governmental tyranny)and I want my guns unencumbered and I think in conclusion I'm willing to accept more risk to enjoy that liberty than some. But don't worry....my side on this issue has a lot of catching up to do. There are so many holes in the FMCDH dyke and this guns for ex-felons is merely a trickle so it isn't a priority for many and probably political suicide for any pol right now. That's the problem with so many laws...they are like taxes...damned hard to repeal.

Have a good evening and I leave celebrating our common ground rather than fixating over our differences.

Regards

[wardaddy]

Thanks....i have eased up. If I need enemies on RKBA...I can go to DU....no need to squabble with a almost like minded ally.

[wardaddy]

Amen!!.....blowback or unintended consequences....both bad for all of us. I'm very wary....very.

Stay Safe.

[sleavelessinseattle]

FREEP ON!!! and Ping me on ALL RKBA threads...I'm GOA AND JPFO as well as LEA...One of them has got to come up with a formula to give Chuckles Schumer the civilian job he so richly deserves for his total disregard for our Constitutionally GUARANTEED right to keep and bear ARMS!!!!Hey, Chuckles how does this sentence end?...You can take my gun from ________.

[Travis McGee]

Prosecuters who gleefully pump up their career conviction stats by sending a 40 year old father with a 20 year old non violent felony conviction to prison for hard time for the "crime" of having a family defense pistol in their house are the future commissars of a totalitarian regime. Their names should go on the list for future reference, they are truly enemies of freedom.

[rebelsoldier]

There are no illegal gun owners, only illegal laws prohibiting gun ownership.

[Light Speed]

No kidding!
Then a guy does his time for his supposed "Infraction against America"..and is released.
Only to find out..that a shadow file now follows him for the rest of his life.
"I only had an un-registered fire arm"..he says to those telling him he cannot be hired.
No use explaining..the file on him projects wording that hints to such things as "Armed robbery,assault..and national transport violation..something akin to a terrorist"