Parents of 106 children notify DOE of intent to use vouchers [FL students can thank Jeb ]

AP ^ | June 22, 2002 | AP

[davidosborne]

Thank you for your service... You are right on target..!

FReegards,

David

[homeschool mama]

bump

[Theodore R.]

One can just declare the new education program as "reform," and the people will support it. The public does not understand that much of the problem in education is the lack of effort on the part of "students." Because their children get good grades, the typical parent has no idea that most of his children's high grades are bogus -- the result of grade inflation carried on by teachers at the insistence of administrators eager to curry favor with the public and taxpayers who underwrite the "education" bond issues. It's all in the money; isn't that what the liberals said about Watergate?

[daviddennis]

I'm a bit amazed by this - why do so few students in failing schools take the voucher?

I read some peoples' comments, and I find it difficult to believe that over 98% of parents are that blase about having their kids go to a bad school.

D

[daviddennis]

If that were true, though, we'd be better off having only one company that makes cars, to avoid tiresome duplication of effort that goes on all the time under capitalism.

And if that was so, our cars would all be 1970s planned obsolescence beauties, since that's what happens when there's no competition (or competition is heavily controlled).

Our schools look a lot more like 1970s rustbuckets than 2002 Mercedes or even Hondas.

D

[summer]

I'm a bit amazed by this - why do so few students in failing schools take the voucher?

I think many people shared your surprise when it first happened in FL -- vouchers being offered and the majority not using them.

In addition to the reasons already cited, I will give you a few more reasons, based on my experience as a teacher who has taught in both public and private schools:

(1) Some private schools accepting vouchers DEMAND parental involvement to an extent previously unknown to the parent, and the parent will not buy into it. In every private school, before the child can attend the school, the parent is informed what guidelines exist at the school. Some parents do not like the guidelines. They choose not to send their child to that school. By contrast, in a public school, the parent is usually provided a booklet of rules, and written consequences, but nothing is said about any demands on the parent in terms of involvement. It is a different deal. Some parents may prefer the public school system for this reason alone.

(2) Some children are reluctant to leave their current school. The reasons vary: as Betty Jane mentioned, the child does not want to leave friends; also, some children simply do not want change. It is as if you are telling the child the family is moving, and the child does not want to leave familiar surroundings. Some parents decide not to force the issue on the child.

(3) There is currently a limited number of: (a) private school accepting vouchers; and (b) private schools accepting vouchers with available seats for new students.

As a result, more private schools are now opening in FL in light of the state's three voucher programs. Over time, it may be that more parents send their children to private schools. Eleven new such schools have just opened in Orlando, and most of these are small, religious schools. Black parents are the ones reportedly "snapping up" vouchers for these new schools, according to the Orlando Sentinel.

(4) IMO, another reason parents are reluctant to use vouchers is because the idea is simply too new to them, and still too controversial to them. School choice is an exciting idea to some parents, but it may be a burden to those parents who prefer to be told what to do.

That's my take on the issue. I am sure people here could add to the above list.

PS David, I must thank you for pinging people to this list -- and tell you once more how overjoyed I am to see that although you are a strong proponent of getting all students out of public schools (and, you know I do support homeschooling as well), I am thrilled you also show strong support for all Gov Bush is doing to improve public schools. Thank you again! :)!!

[summer]

I meant: pinging people to this thread...

[Betty Jane]

I have a couple of ideas as to why parents don't take advantage of these options.

First is ignorance. These opportunities are not widely advertised. I heard about the charter school during a radio interview on the Mike Rosen show. If I hadn't heard that, I never would have. The school district rarely mentions us.

Next is other people telling horror stories or guilting parents out of something different. People want to feel good about their choices. When I told my neighbors about the school my daughter was going to attend, I asked if they wanted info. Not one wanted it. The neighborhood school is, in my opinion, horrendous. But all the kids in my cul-de-sac attend. The parents like it or so they say.

Another thing is shear laziness in finding out about each school. In Colorado we have open enrollment, meaning any child can attend any school in any district in the state if there is available space. I looked at every school within a ten mile radius of my house. Only about 3% take advantage of this. The parents would have to arrange trransportation.

One more thing is total faith in teachers. I love my daughter's school and her teacher's. I have asked for advice and will take it under advisement. But I have seen parents who expect some 24 year old just out of college to have the answers to their kids every problem. Parents have been dumbed down so much that they need an expert opinion for everything. Now remember this in a school of choice. Imagine what parents of kids in regular school believe. It scares me to see people place their kids' futures so completely in the hands of people they barely know, but they do it everyday.

All I can do is to keep telling people about their options and hope they will make the right choices.

When I told my cousins, who are teachers in N.Y., that my daughter was in a charter, they thought I was nuts. I didn't realize until recently that N.Y. charters are designed to fail so the experiment will just go away.

Anyhow Dennis, keep your options open and investigate every school you may consider for your kids before you send them.

[summer]

David, I think Betty Jane may have meant to ping you on her reply above, in answer to your question. I would like to comment on her points from a FL perspective as I believe she is in CO:

First is ignorance....

Here in FL, I believe the school districts are required by law to post on their school district web sites or elsewhere information about the special ed scholarsip/voucher program, and I believe when a school is failing, the local papers cover it extensively and the school must also provide info to the parents. (1) Now, do all parents receive what info is sent home? (2) Do all parents read what they get in the mail? (3) Can all parents read? I know the answers in some cases are (1) no, (2) no, and (3) no. Consequently, I believe in FL efforts are made, repeatedly, to inform parents, but, such efforts may not be successful.

Next is other people telling horror stories or guilting parents out of something different. People want to feel good about their choices.

I strongly agree with what Betty Jane said here. If the union spent just half as much genuinely trying to work with Gov Bush abd his policies as it does publicly complaining about him, FL would be #1 in education. Some of the media is no help either, because some media constantly presents a biased anti-school choice view, frightening people with inaccurate informatin. I will post a recent example later on this thread, and Gov Bush's letter to the editor.

Another thing is shear laziness in finding out about each school.

Yep. Some people who can read, and would be open to new ideas, are simply to lazy to find out.

One more thing is total faith in teachers.

This is a valid point too, even though I myself am a teacher. As much as I may try to accurately assess a student, and learn all about that student, a parent is the one who knows even more about the child. Also, as a teacher, I am not a doctor (as a doctor is the only one the parent should consult about drugs like Ritilin), and I refuse to offer an opinion about such matters. In addition, even an expert teacher, who means well, can be wrong in some matters. Just as doctors can be wrong. And lawyers can be wrong. It is possible and it does happen.

A teacher who is truly a professional will always try to work with a parent, and not against a parent. And, both the parent and the teacher can, and should be, on the same side, working for the benefit of: the student.

When this does happen, the student is well aware of the team effort -- and responds to school situations in a very different way than the student who knows the parent hates the school and teachers.

For that teacher, life can be a nightmare, even if the teacher is an outstanding teacher -- and, wants to work with the parent.

[summer]

See post #49, as I think Betty Jane meant to ping David Osborne here. :)

[summer]

I meant:

...if the union spent just half as much = just half as much time...

...Gov Bush and his policies...

[summer]

Well, my typing is so terrible tonight. My apologies!

I meant: ... simply too lazy to find out.

[Betty Jane]

Summer, you're right. I did mean to ping David Osborne. Sorry, David.

David, I didn't realize you are a homeschooling parent. That's great. I think every parent should look at every option and make a decision that is right for his child. I had considered homeschooling, but then my daughter was accepted at my first choice of schools.

I agree that public schools should be outlawed as unconstitutional, but until they are I'm going to get my daughter the best education possible.

[summer]

I agree that public schools should be outlawed as unconstitutional,

LOL....Betty Jane, I am chuckling here because I assume that if you are working in a charter school, then, you are actually working in a public school -- and of course, you have the constitional right to work there! I say this with a smile, and not to criticize your views.

David knows I always support improving public schools IN ADDITION to supporting all other educational environments, including: charter, private and homeschooling. :)

[summer]

Or, if you are not also working there, but are the parent of a child in a charter school, then, again -- I think you should have that option too, to choose a charter school (which exists thanks to public funding). :)

[Betty Jane]

Yes, the charter is a public school. My viewpoints may seem contradictory, but that's what makes me the enigma that I am. 8 ^ )

I think putting a lien on someone's property to educate someone else's children is both immoral and unconstitutional. The "good of society" should not trample the rights of the individual.

I also know that as long as public schools are the law of the land, I'm going to get the best education for my child. After all our school slogan is "Building the best school in America".

[summer]

My viewpoints may seem contradictory, but that's what makes me the enigma that I am. 8 ^ )

LOL! That's the exact same way I feel about myself, Betty Jane! LOL! Seriously. :)!

[summer]

I think putting a lien on someone's property to educate someone else's children is both immoral and unconstitutional. The "good of society" should not trample the rights of the individual.

I would only say that public education is something that is inself "property" in a sense, unique in that it is both an individual's property and, property owned by all -- with benefits for all.

For if we stop public education, we do so at too great an expense -- and risk competing with countries where the lack of education has already given us ample evidence of the horrific results (illiteracy, etc.). Getting rid of public schools does not mean everyone suddenly becomes literate overnight, or gets to go to a private school, or be homeschooled. Consequently, I think there is a valid place for public education, and I do not want to see it eliminated, ever.

But, do I want to see it improved? Yes. :)

Furthermore, I am in favor of making high school optional for all. If a student wants to take a legal leave of absence and work for a year after 8th grade, I say: Let that student go on a legal leave of absence requiring fulltime work. And, if the student wants to return to school, fine. But if not, if the student would rather work fulltime than attend school, that is OK too. It is better to acquire job training at 14 and 15 than having so many kids drop out at 16 with no job skills.

[summer]

that is inself = that is in itself

[summer]

Re your post #34. My pleasure. I also meant to post this one for you, as this is a great example of a public school focusing on the basics, since most students here do not even speak English as a first language - yet, these students' reading scores [for reading in English] are soaring:

Bush promotes education agenda in Lee school visit
[Jeb praises school w/ increased reading scores]