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1 posted on 07/02/2002 5:16:45 PM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: wardcleaver
bttt
2 posted on 07/02/2002 5:18:56 PM PDT by f.Christian
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To: Dog Gone
Good point. I am certian most athiests don't mind a bit the phrase "under God". I remember as a kid just mimicing the pledge without any comprehension of it anyway.
3 posted on 07/02/2002 5:21:00 PM PDT by rageaholic
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To: Dog Gone
I love it! Thank you to the atheist author.
4 posted on 07/02/2002 5:24:33 PM PDT by RAT Patrol
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To: Dog Gone
While working in the home of a military man today, I noticed the enscription on a WW I German helmet he happened to have on his desk. If I translated corectly, it read (in German):
With God for King and Fatherland

I wonder if the Kaiser's god was the same as our God?

5 posted on 07/02/2002 5:27:25 PM PDT by snopercod
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To: Dog Gone
I used to be an atheist. But then, as I started to learn more about the Universe by reading about developments in modern physics, I became persuaded that atheism was incompatible with a scientific approach to existence.

True, I am only a layman, and there is a lot about physics I don't understand. But the more I listen to scientists trying to translate the meaning of their mathematical equations into English, the more they begin to sound like religious mystics.

And if they ever do find the Unified FIeld Theory, which I think is likely, I think the scientific proof of God's existence will be undeniable.

7 posted on 07/02/2002 6:09:34 PM PDT by Maceman
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To: Dog Gone
If you stuck a gun to my head (and, thankfully, I live in a country where that would happen only to rid me of my wallet rather than my religious beliefs),

Just wait, give them another 10 to 15 years and I would not doubt one bit.

10 posted on 07/02/2002 6:32:16 PM PDT by JZoback
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To: Dog Gone
Evangelical atheists like Newdow delight in the Santa Claus analogy. It's memorable, sounds clever and is incredibly insulting. I've even heard the same assertion made with the Easter Bunny. In part, the evangelicals make such callous remarks because they see themselves as bringers of "Truth." And if a few feelings get hurt along the way, they reason, that's the price for the liberating light they bring.

But I would never make such a comparison, nor would many atheists I know. We wouldn't because it not only is bad manners and shows a lack of intellectual humility, it's also grossly unfair. It's empirically verifiable that there is no Santa Claus. The same cannot be said of God.

This part I don't understand. I don't see how you can empirically verify that there is no Santa Claus. You can't prove a negative. I have lost my faith in Santa Claus, for the same reason I lost my faith in God - there's no empirical evidence for either magical person's existence.
11 posted on 07/02/2002 6:35:29 PM PDT by jennyp
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To: Dog Gone
Excellent.

Could have been written by Pardek, if Pardek knew how to write.

17 posted on 07/02/2002 7:46:00 PM PDT by Senator Pardek
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To: Dog Gone
Atheists
"The other problem with evangelicals like Newdow is that while he's so disrespectful about the beliefs of others, he insists his own be treated with the utmost reverence."

"They are intolerant, pushy and self-righteous."

This has been my experience exactly.
20 posted on 07/02/2002 8:16:50 PM PDT by moteineye
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To: Dog Gone
It's empirically verifiable that there is no Santa Claus.

I don't see how.

21 posted on 07/02/2002 8:47:42 PM PDT by Anamensis
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To: Dog Gone
[Newdow] told reporters he doesn't believe in God for the same reason he doesn't believe in Santa Claus. ...But I would never make such a comparison, nor would many atheists I know. We wouldn't because it not only is bad manners and shows a lack of intellectual humility...

When Nathaniel Branden started the Nathaniel Brandon Institute in the '60s meetings were sometimes attended by a few hundred people, often with Ayn Rand up on stage behind Branden. Ludwig von Mises once came with his wife, and she later related the experience. She told of serious, nervous looking people who smoked incessantly (I always imagine them as a prototypical pocket protector crowd with Brill Creamed hair and a band-aid holding their black-rimmed glasses together at the bridge of the nose). She said the only time any levity entered the room was when the word "God" was mentioned. Then everybody snickered in unison.

"Intellectual humility" is not a strong suit among atheists, having been replaced by a knowing snicker. These poor souls have come to the wholly unwarranted conviction that our meager advances in understanding the natural world somehow solve the unfathomable mystery of existence. It is a pitiable position, in my opinion, the there of no there there fame.

23 posted on 07/02/2002 10:05:56 PM PDT by beckett
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To: Dog Gone
Great article. This person has restored my faith in atheists! :)
25 posted on 07/02/2002 10:26:30 PM PDT by ladyinred
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To: Dog Gone
"Well-Adjusted Atheist Doesn't Object to `God.' "

Good first step..

29 posted on 07/02/2002 11:13:48 PM PDT by Texas Mom
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To: Dog Gone
Most people who think they will get social security can be thought of people of 'faith'.


BUMP

34 posted on 07/03/2002 3:35:25 AM PDT by tm22721
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To: Dog Gone
I like an honest atheist! Honesty is a virtue and attribute of God.
38 posted on 07/03/2002 7:15:35 AM PDT by ThomasMore
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To: Dog Gone; All
the old Woody Allen joke: If there is a God, he's a tremendous underachiever.

I never liked Woody Allen. He's always been the pessimistic cynic to me. Underachiever?!?! Woody, open your eyes to a totally balanced universe.

Then the LORD addressed Woody out of the storm and said:
Who is this that obscures divine plans with words of ignorance?
Gird up your loins now, like a man; I will question you, and you tell me the answers!
Where were you when I founded the earth? Tell me, if you have understanding.
Who determined its size; do you know? Who stretched out the measuring line for it?
Into what were its pedestals sunk, and who laid the cornerstone,
While the morning stars sang in chorus and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Have you ever in your lifetime commanded the morning and shown the dawn its place
For taking hold of the ends of the earth, till the wicked are shaken from its surface?
Have you entered into the sources of the sea, or walked about in the depths of the abyss?
Have the gates of death been shown to you, or have you seen the gates of darkness?
Have you comprehended the breadth of the earth? Tell me, if you know all:
Which is the way to the dwelling place of light, and where is the abode of darkness,
You know, because you were born before them, and the number of your years is great! (the original Woody Allen sarcasm)
Have you entered the storehouse of the snow, and seen the treasury of the hail
Which way to the parting of the winds, whence the east wind spreads over the earth?
Who has laid out a channel for the downpour and for the thunderstorm a path
Has the rain a father; or who has begotten the drops of dew?
Out of whose womb comes the ice, and who gives the hoarfrost its birth in the skies?
Have you fitted a curb to the Pleiades, or loosened the bonds of Orion?
Can you bring forth the Mazzaroth in their season, or guide the Bear with its train?
Do you know the ordinances of the heavens; can you put into effect their plan on the earth?
Can you raise your voice among the clouds, or veil yourself in the waters of the storm?
Can you send forth the lightnings on their way, or will they say to you, "Here we are"?
Who counts the clouds in his wisdom? Or who tilts the water jars of heaven
So that the dust of earth is fused into a mass and its clods made solid?
Who puts wisdom in the heart, and gives the cock its understanding?
Who provides nourishment for the ravens when their young ones cry out to God, and they rove abroad without food?
Do you know about the birth of the mountain goats, watch for the birth pangs of the hinds,
Number the months that they must fulfill, and fix the time of their bringing forth?
Will the wild ox consent to serve you, and to pass the nights by your manger?
Will a rope bind him in the furrow, and will he harrow the valleys after you?
Will you trust him for his great strength and leave to him the fruits of your toil?
Can you rely on him to thresh out your grain and gather in the yield of your threshing floor?
The wings of the ostrich beat idly; her plumage is lacking in pinions.
When she leaves her eggs on the ground and deposits them in the sand,
Unmindful that a foot may crush them, that the wild beasts may trample them,
She cruelly disowns her young and ruthlessly makes nought of her brood;
For God has withheld wisdom from her and has given her no share in understanding.
Yet in her swiftness of foot she makes sport of the horse and his rider.
Do you give the horse his strength, and endow his neck with splendor?
Do you make the steed to quiver while his thunderous snorting spreads terror?
He jubilantly paws the plain and rushes in his might against the weapons.
He laughs at fear and cannot be deterred; he turns not back from the sword.
Around him rattles the quiver, flashes the spear and the javelin.
Frenzied and trembling he devours the ground; he holds not back at the sound of the trumpet,
but at each blast he cries, "Aha!" Even from afar he scents the battle, the roar of the chiefs and the shouting.
Is it by your discernment that the hawk soars, that he spreads his wings toward the south?
Does the eagle fly up at your command to build his nest aloft?
[On the cliff he dwells and spends the night, on the spur of the cliff or the fortress.
From thence he watches for his prey; his eyes behold it afar off.
His young ones greedily drink blood; where the slain are, there is he.
The LORD then said to Woody:
Will we have arguing with the Almighty by the critic? Let him who would correct God give answer!

41 posted on 07/03/2002 7:35:26 AM PDT by ThomasMore
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To: Dog Gone
"But I cannot say with 100 percent certainty there is no God, and neither can anyone else. The proposition that the world just spontaneously came into being is preposterous. But so is the idea that a deity created the universe and now sits in judgment of what we humans do all day. Of course, if I'm wrong, I'm going to hell, as many evangelical Christians have told me. But I believe what I believe. Even we atheists must have faith. "

This is about the best approximation of what I personally believe that I have seen. This is a wonderful post! There are many of us non-believers who don't mind "under God" in the Pledge, or Jesus in the Manger Christmas displays. Heck, I even like some Gospel music and think the Bible is a book chocked full of good literature and good philosophy. And I sure don't want to cause a believer to lose his or her faith. Some of these activist Atheists are a bunch of idiots going around looking for something to be upset about. To H*LL with them. parsy.


43 posted on 07/03/2002 8:00:03 AM PDT by parsifal
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