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MY VOTE IS FOR SALE
Vanity | July 4, 2002 | B. A. Conservative

Posted on 07/04/2002 6:16:32 AM PDT by B. A. Conservative

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To: B. A. Conservative
Given the current quality of elected officials, I have to disagree with you regarding term limits. It appears that a large number of our elected officials are on the take, giving them a limited time to take all they can doesn't serve much of a purpose. I would think it would just up the price they are asking. Thinking would be, "Let's see, I only have four years to take in as much money as I can, so I will sell my vote for a million, rather than the paltry 10K my predecessor got."

That said, I really think a repeal of the 17th would really help out. Make the Senators directly responsible to the State they represent, not the people who paid for their elections. If the state doesn't like what their Senator is doing, yank him out and send someone who will act in the best interests of the state.

61 posted on 07/04/2002 10:52:00 AM PDT by Brad C.
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To: Bob Mc
"Incrementalism" only works to move towards more government, never less, to the left, not to the right.

hmmm...gotta think about that one. I don't see why "ideas" cannot be implemented incrementally.

Gotta run...will respond more to this one later.

62 posted on 07/04/2002 10:57:35 AM PDT by evad
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To: B. A. Conservative
May I make a suggestion for a Constitutional Amendment?

If you want to stop the growth and intrusiveness of the Federal Government you must deal with unfunded mandates. This is where the government requires the states or individuals to spend money without giving them the money to do it. The states would love this. The liberals would scream bloody murder. That is enough of a reason to do it.

SECTION 1: The Federal Government of The United States of America, may not require the expenditure of any money, in any amount, for any purpose by any individual, corporation, or governmental body except that the Federal Government provides the money to be expended. The requirement may be in the form of, but not limited to, legislation, regulation, or judicial ruling.

SECTION 2: The Federal Government, for the purposes of this amendment, is defined as all members of the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial branches of government whether elected, appointed, or hired. A person is deemed to be a member of one of the branches of the Federal Government if they act in an official capacity for the Federal Government, whether or not they receive compensation, in whole or in part.

SECTION 3: This amendment shall not be interpreted to exclude the collection of information directly related to the collection of Federal taxes or the execution of Federal contracts for which goods or services are provided to the Federal Government.

SECTION 4: This amendment shall take effect on the first day of the second month following ratification by two thirds or more of the states.

------------------

I know a lot of people won't like the part about taxes but the government does have legitimate duties and must be allowed to collect taxes.

Garde la Foi, mes amis! Jamais reculez á tyrannie un pouce!
(Keep the Faith, my friends! Never give an inch to tyranny!)

LonePalm, le Républicain du verre cassé (The Broken Glass Republican)

63 posted on 07/04/2002 12:06:15 PM PDT by LonePalm
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To: RikaStrom; Slip18; xsmommy; Constitution Day; Gabz; Enterprise; one_particular_harbour; hobbes1; ...
Ping, Y'all. See my post #63

How's this for a real Declaration of Independence?

Garde la Foi, mes amis! Jamais reculez á tyrannie un pouce!
(Keep the Faith, my friends! Never give an inch to tyranny!)

LonePalm, le Républicain du verre cassé (The Broken Glass Republican)

64 posted on 07/04/2002 12:26:41 PM PDT by LonePalm
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To: exodus; B. A. Conservative
Thanks for the ping, exodus! Great work, B. A. Conservative!

The Republican Party is not the answer. Its leadership get their marching orders from the same people who control the Demoncrats. Any politicians who make it to the top have already been compromised -- or they wouldn't be there. That includes Dubya.

The only answer I can see is for tens of millions of Americans to understand this. The 2-headed-one-party system and state-controlled media represent a "rigged" game. I also have little confidence in the voting system. It's also rigged and the Republicans aren't trying to correct it. Lots of countries use "voting" to elect their leaders. What makes us think our voting system is any less corrupt than the others.

I realize that most Americans view my ideas as wacko and conspiratorial. So they will continue to go with the flow -- electing compromised or corrupted politicians who are mere puppets for the real powers -- the unseen power structure that we never get to hear or read about. But we can all see down which road that power structure is taking us. Can't we?

65 posted on 07/04/2002 1:07:36 PM PDT by BillofRights
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To: B. A. Conservative
Morning Bump
66 posted on 07/05/2002 4:28:08 AM PDT by WhiteGuy
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To: sixmil
KISS principle.

Keep it simple!

We are losing. We need a strategy that hits politicians where they cannot avoid getting the message and at the same time a message that appeals to huge numbers of voters without splintering the voting mass into small groups on pet issues.

67 posted on 07/05/2002 5:03:45 AM PDT by B. A. Conservative
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To: exodus
I won't argue with your comments. In the past, there was not a real means to determine why people didn't vote in a particular election. This time we are giving politicians an itemized agenda of why we will or won't vote.

And more importantly, this time we are advocating that the voter not enter the polling place thereby withholding their vote in state or local races. Depriving candidates in state and local races will put enormous pressure on the national Republican Party to adopt our Contract with Congress. It multiplies the power of a single vote and our voice with the national party by the number of politicians in state and local races. This is part of the leverage that makes this strategy superior to simply voting for third parties or third party candidates.

68 posted on 07/05/2002 5:14:31 AM PDT by B. A. Conservative
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To: LonePalm
We need to walk before we can run.

Please don't forget the KISS principle. And in the near term, state and local governments don't vote.

69 posted on 07/05/2002 5:21:13 AM PDT by B. A. Conservative
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To: redrock; B. A. Conservative; snopercod; First_Salute
Thanks for the ping, redrock.

And thank you for this wonderful essay, B.A.Conservative. Your #4, especially, had me standing at my computer and cheering into the screen (not my normal Monday morning behavior, I assure you :).

Considering the state of our republic (and the degree to which our government no longer deserves inclusion under that particular label), it is difficult to pare down our grievances (against the current ruling class in Washington) to a short minimum requirement in order to win one's vote list. You've done a superb job in accomplishing just that.

Any additions to your concise list would result in a watering down of the sense of urgency to change those policies you would like to see changed (and the impact that such policy changes would have). And any further additions would also be dependent on a person's subjective definition of the immediate threat that other government abuses of power poses.

With that said, I have just a few suggested additions to your list (Did I shoot myself in the foot by prefacing my suggestions with the previous paragraph? So be it. Feet heal.... :)

(6) Resign from globalist-controlled international agencies (UN, World Bank, IMF, et al.), and re-establish senate advise and consent jurisdiction over the details of trade agreements, discouraging overseas investment which would jeopardize our own national security and prosperity.

(7) Abolish the Fed and return to an honest gold standard.

(8) Repeal all federal laws that in any way restrict, regulate or license the ownership of personal firearms to lawful citizens. And require that anyone who abuses his Second Amendment right by using a firearm in the commission of a crime be incarcerated for life.

(9) Allow states to identify and hold illegal immigrants for deportation, and expedite the deportation procedure.

(10) Remove the abortion issue from the (unconstitutional prerogative) jurisdiction of the federal courts.

Actually, both of our lists (and any others that anyone else might construct) can be pared down even further to: Rein in the powers of the federal government to those enumerated in the U.S. Constitution.

Sometimes there is unparalleled beauty in simplicity.

70 posted on 07/05/2002 8:25:38 AM PDT by joanie-f
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To: B. A. Conservative
I like it. Good work. BUMP!
71 posted on 07/05/2002 8:29:41 AM PDT by Tauzero
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To: B. A. Conservative
I think the term limits should be voluntary; some sort of honor system.

Davy Crocket did a couple of stints in Congress, then went out in a blaze of glory at the Alamo. I've heard his time in Congress was honorable, but have no way of knowing for sure. Nevertheless, he didn't stay in DC 'til death do us part'.

Maybe we can hatch a program whereby Senators and Congresspersons who leave after one or two terms are entitled to get a song and a movie written about them, provided they go off and die defending something worthwhile. For most of the current critters, it would work wonders for their service record, wiping loads of scandal, misdeeds, and outright treason from their public images; history would be much more forgiving.

As for the songs and movies, no one would be required to watch or listen. At the worst, they couldn't be much more disgusting than some of current hollywood stuff.

72 posted on 07/05/2002 9:10:39 AM PDT by meadsjn
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To: B. A. Conservative
Afternoon Bump

Printing, email, keep it going.....

73 posted on 07/05/2002 10:19:38 AM PDT by WhiteGuy
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To: WhiteGuy
Rebump.
74 posted on 07/05/2002 10:51:31 AM PDT by headsonpikes
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To: BillofRights; B. A. Conservative; Jim Robinson
I agree with you, bill. The sooner we the people see our "leaders" for what they really are, the better. Unfortunately, it's too late. My belief in God saves me from believing in complete doom, but this world is headed straight for where it's headed! BAC's attempt is a noble one and I have no problem supporting it, but I'd rather we the people realized that we are not going to turn the ship of state around nor are we going to go back to the America of my youth (the '50's and early '60's). To harbor this hope is to blind us to reality. We might need to start planning for dealing with the world as it is and send scouts out ahead of the ship. I always come back to Orwell's 1984 when I read posts like yours. How visionary was he, I ask ya?!! I'm starting to ask myself questions such as: How can we hold the dogs at bay? How much of our soverignty can we retain? How much of our Constitution can we rely upon anymore? The enemy is in our midst in more ways than one and has been for a long time; the influence/work of the enemy has been advancing exponentially for at least 30-40 years. It has permeated literally every single institution and, culturally, is across the board. I recently informed GWB that he no longer has my vote; perhaps he can do something to change that, but I doubt it. I don't want to be subjugated by anyone, 'RAT or Republican or Reformer or some new party candidate. The argument (which I don't believe) that GW has some grand strategy that requires his initial pandering to the 'RAT's and illegals and unions and....whomever or whatever, is totally unacceptable. My comfort and trust is in the God of Abraham and Jesus Christ--the world is moving in the direction it's supposed to be moving in. But that doesn't mean I won't be standing next to you in the last charge, if it comes to that. Time marches on.
75 posted on 07/05/2002 11:51:33 AM PDT by viaveritasvita
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To: BillofRights
You might be interested in a good source for commentary. Lowell Phillips' article "What Constitution?" is excellent and I recommend anything by Paul Scates. If their articles aren't at the top when entering website, can be accessed on the lower right-hand side. If you (anyone reading this post) read Phillips' article, I'd be interested in what you think.

http://www.toogoodreports.com/
76 posted on 07/05/2002 12:16:28 PM PDT by viaveritasvita
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To: B. A. Conservative
Interesting. Nice work. I have to re-read when I can take time to really mull it over....
77 posted on 07/05/2002 2:32:13 PM PDT by dcwusmc
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To: viaveritasvita
....My belief in God saves me from believing in complete doom, but this world is headed straight for where it's headed!....My comfort and trust is in the God of Abraham and Jesus Christ--the world is moving in the direction it's supposed to be moving in....

I wish I had the faith that you apparently have. I am beginning to believe, that short of divine intervention, we are doomed -- at least in the sense of the loss of freedom among the masses. In fact, freedom is already gone. Only the illusion of freedom remains.

78 posted on 07/05/2002 3:41:27 PM PDT by BillofRights
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To: viaveritasvita
Thanks for the link. Excellent commentary!
79 posted on 07/05/2002 3:46:34 PM PDT by BillofRights
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To: B. A. Conservative
You should know from other threads that you and I are like minded on most issues concerning our republic and what is wrong and what it will take to fix it. So I don't want you to take the following remark as an affront. To the contrary I applaud your passion and cogent thoughts on this thread.

You started the thread by stating, "It is beyond challenge that most, if not all, of the problems America faces today originate in Washington."

The only issue I have with the statement is that I honestly believe that most of the problems America faces today were started long ago by the "people" in their continual abrogation of personal responsibility in all matters, especially when it comes to knowledge and participation in our republican form of government. The people in Washington originated here with us as we either directly or indirectly (through apathy or poor factual knowledge) send and re-send these mediocre types to "rule" over us.

Americans in the main are fat, dumb, and happy to give away freedom after freedom, just as long as they don't have to solve any problems on their own.

Granted the career politician and bureaucrat has not only counted upon the lazy nature of people, but added to insuring their (the pol's) maintenance of power by helping folks to rely upon someone else to "take care of them - cradle to grave". But the bottom line is that we (as the total electorate) deserve the government and politicians we have. Not until a sufficient majority of the electorate gets "sick and tired" of the sub par leadership we elect will things change and quite frankly my friend I am not optimistic at all that this will happen. We have traveled too far down the road of dependence upon "government" to solve our every problem and fill our every need to make the about face needed.

So again, I lay the blame squarely at the feet of the American people as a whole, while understanding that many who frequent this web site don't fit the description. But in reality we are a small and diminishing minority.

God Bless you for the good fight and keep it up.

80 posted on 07/05/2002 5:41:33 PM PDT by ImpBill
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